So, here is an interesting idea/question.

Overlapping ships in the setup stage of the game. Is it allowed?

What I mean is, can I stack ships so that portions are in another ship?

To be blunt... You can't overlap at any other time, what would make you think you could then?

If its because the Rules don't say you can't, then I refer you to my favourite comic strip... XKCD.




http://xkcd.com/1552/

To be blunt... You can't overlap at any other time, what would make you think you could then?

If its because the Rules don't say you can't, then I refer you to my favourite comic strip... XKCD.

http://xkcd.com/1552/

Anyone else have thoughts in this?

I'm sure they didn't intend it to be allowed. I can't find rock solid logic that suggests you absolutely can't. Unfortunately, if this becomes enough of an issue they'll have to put in the FAQ. I think it would be reasonable honestly if no one ever did it or tried to argue for it just because.

Anything that results in you having to stack up ships ontop of each other I would assume is not allowed (or att the very least not intended to be allowed) as it would be horribly inpractical.

Anything that results in you having to stack up ships ontop of each other I would assume is not allowed (or att the very least not intended to be allowed) as it would be horribly inpractical.

I agree that it may not be an intention but I can't find a single rule that makes it not allowed. . .

Why would it be impractical?

Have you tryed it? Depending on how much you overlapp, it soon becomes an intricate balancing act. And how would you go about executing a maneuver for the ship on top? Or how would you handle the ship ontop when the ship underneeth moves? It all seems very impractical to me any ways.

Yup I have tried this. I have placed a Nebulon-B overlapping an Assault Frigate but they are going at different angles.

Why would it be impractical?

Have you tryed it? Depending on how much you overlapp, it soon becomes an intricate balancing act. And how would you go about executing a maneuver for the ship on top? Or how would you handle the ship ontop when the ship underneeth moves? It all seems very impractical to me any ways.

This should be enough for anyone to understand that overlapping during setup simply cannot work. At least if you ask me.

Why though?

For anyone wondering, I want someone to prove me wrong but I need a rule that says so.

What I am talking about is currently not considered an overlap during the setup

Why though?

For anyone wondering, I want someone to prove me wrong but I need a rule that says so.

What I am talking about is currently not considered an overlap during the setup

Because you would violate several other rules when trying to execute a maneuver with the overlapped and/or overlapping ship. Also, how would you even place a VSD on top of another VSD, if they would be placed directly on top of each other?

What rules? Overlapping occurs after a maneuver is executed so no one has executed a maneuver yet so there is no "overlap"

Well I am looking at still having a majority of the base on the setup area. Stacking VSD bases would be the extreme method but you could technically get an interesting conga line.

For anyone wondering, I want someone to prove me wrong but I need a rule that says so.

I'm not saying there is a rule specificaly forbiding what you sudgest. I'm saying that allowing it leeds to situations so impractical (and not even remotley handeled by the rules) that we do best to assume it is not allowed to begin with.

For anyone wondering, I want someone to prove me wrong but I need a rule that says so.

I'm not saying there is a rule specificaly forbiding what you sudgest. I'm saying that allowing it leeds to situations so impractical (and not even remotley handeled by the rules) that we do best to assume it is not allowed to begin with.

Allowing ships to overlap in the setup is a bit like going to Camelot. It might seem like a good idea at first, but ultimatley it is a silly place.

I an all for RAW over RAI and you are welcome to submit the question to FFG. But I feel that the responce is obvious. You are looking for a loophole at setup that leads to formations that are otherwise forbidden during any other part of game play. Simply describing the new intricacies of using the maneuver tool during this condition would require large new sections in the rule book. There are too many practical and thematic issues with allowing this. To be honest the question doesn't seem worth asking. The would be akin to asking whether a ship could be deployed leaning on it's side. Sure there is no rule saying you can't, but it seams obvious.

What rules? Overlapping occurs after a maneuver is executed so no one has executed a maneuver yet so there is no "overlap"

You seem to be misunderstanding me (or I'm to vague). I'm taking about the actual positioning of the maneuver tool and moving the ship, not the rules regarding the timing of Overlapping. I.e. how are you supposed to insert the maneuver tool when you are a entire base+ship carefully balancing on top of a VSD? Or trace LoS/firiring arc, if my ship is on top of another model.

Lyraeus

Well I am looking at still having a majority of the base on the setup area. Stacking VSD bases would be the extreme method but you could technically get an interesting conga line.

Here is where it really does not work legally. We would need an infinite amount of rules for every possible ship combination, combined with every combinations of angles and amount of overlapping, if your example of Overlapping is valid, but two VSD on top of each other is not. Where would one draw the line?

It boils down to how you approach the rules. The very basic is that you are not allowed to do anything. Then, you have rules which tell you what to do, not the other way around. I think Drasnigtha's linked XKCD-strip really explains it really well, as well err404's post. I mean, it does not explicitly say anywhere that I'm not allowed to just verbally declare your ships destroyed, and then trigger the "Destroyed ships" step at the end of the round.

Well no an infinite amount of rules. The rules for one allow you to estimate where a ship would end up when in a position that you can not get the maneuver tool locked in so that covers your concern on moving ships from that position.

Also I don't see any RAI on this. What rule am I breaking? What rule could I be close to breaking?

I will ask. Thankfully I have a picture of the concept as well.

Um, your kidding me right? You can verbally declare anything but unless there is damage equal to my hull. So there is a rule that hinders that.

There is no rule on how set up is done EXCEPT it has to be in the setup area befitting the objective. That's it. I am not overlapping, I am not ramming, etc because I have yet to execute a maneuver.

Now I really think like you guys that it can't be done but I can't find any sliver of a rule to back that up. I am hoping someone can find anything that I can logically link that says no to this.

@err404, the maneuver section would not need to be changed. As I have stated and as it is in the Rules, when you can't lock in the tool you estimate the starting and ending position. So there is no issue with this and the tool. It is actually easy to do.

Alao destroyed ship step? Ships are destroyed after damage is done in an attack not at the end of turn unless Rieekan works like he reads in which case zombie ships are going to be a thing.

Congratulations, you've found a loophole.

It's a stupid one for sure.

Its obvious intent is that bases never overlap, hence all the rules for resolving overlapping.

I'm not arguing you can't do it, just saying it is very dumb.

Ok, let's assume you do this and start with two ships overlapped. One slightly overlapping the front of the other.

Now the aft most ship tryes to move, let's say it has speed one. This would cause an overlapp and the rules tell us to temporarily decrease the speed untill the maneuver no longer causes an overlapp... Well, congratulations, you will spend enternity decreasing speed and it will still overlapp.

That is the kind of sillyness that can lead to.

It would only overlap if it could not get off the ship which even at speed 1 a small ship base can get out.

Smuggler, you did hit upon the issue I came up with on this but that is the only scenario. Knowing this just go speed 2

Congratulations, you've found a loophole.It's a stupid one for sure.Its obvious intent is that bases never overlap, hence all the rules for resolving overlapping.I'm not arguing you can't do it, just saying it is very dumb.

How much more effective than just sitting them side by side?

Here is the picture.