I've been struck on the head with a baseball bat (hard) with a helmet on. (older military helmet, but still)

It kinda hurts, it kinda jarrs you, but you wouldn't go down from it.

I doubt that you were hit hard in that case...

I think it's entirely plausible that Stormtrooper armor might be optimized to protect against blasters and not more primitive weaponry. After all it's the same with modern body armor, it protects more against ballistic weaponry than against other types.

Yes, if we base this on real physics and military armor, I agree

Our armor works again bullets to the torso. It still does almost nothing to help against large kinetic transfers (falling, motor vehicle collisions, etc.) and it's only of limited use against blasts (helps against fragments, but not against the pressure wave).

Yes.

I've been struck on the head with a baseball bat (hard) with a helmet on. (older military helmet, but still)

It kinda hurts, it kinda jarrs you, but you wouldn't go down from it.

I doubt that you were hit hard in that case...

I agree.

I quote myself... But I want to throw this in because my experience as an army medic.

Still, in a story and a universe based on telling stories, a universe made from homages and tributes to other stories, films and fiction, dedicated to copying myth, fantasy and faerytales, I don`t think real world logic matters much.

If a dwarf, gnome or any small hero or sidekick in a classic adventure story bashed a henchman or guard on the helmet, he would go down if it made sense in the story. If you compare Star Wars to the real world it all falls apart. Maybe we compare it more to reality in SW because they have technology and things that reminds us of real life, but if this was about guards with spears in a fantasy fiction cartoon or faerytale, we wouldn`t. It`s all about perception and how you view the story and universe, I think.

Still, as an ex-army medic, I would say the ewok weaponry to the head still holds up...

I've been struck on the head with a baseball bat (hard) with a helmet on. (older military helmet, but still)

It kinda hurts, it kinda jarrs you, but you wouldn't go down from it.

I doubt that you were hit hard in that case...

Doubt away.

It hurt like a sunofa... but it didn't knock me over, it didn't take me out of it. And if it hadn't have happened to be my friend smacking me "for fun", I would have been able to take care of whoever hit me in the first place.

(and yes, he swung with all his might, according to him... he wanted to see "if I got knocked out")

Either way, he hit a lot harder than the Ewoks do in the film.

Only here could there be an eight-page discussion on Ewoks...

I am impressed, guys. Utterly impressed.

Only here could there be an eight-page discussion on Ewoks...

I am impressed, guys. Utterly impressed.

I love being a nerd!

I've been struck on the head with a baseball bat (hard) with a helmet on. (older military helmet, but still)

It kinda hurts, it kinda jarrs you, but you wouldn't go down from it.

I doubt that you were hit hard in that case...

Doubt away.

It hurt like a sunofa... but it didn't knock me over, it didn't take me out of it. And if it hadn't have happened to be my friend smacking me "for fun", I would have been able to take care of whoever hit me in the first place.

(and yes, he swung with all his might, according to him... he wanted to see "if I got knocked out)

Do you know that game where there's a row of hanging marbles and you let one go and one comes off the other side? That is what is happening the impact needs to go somewhere. Now, I am not saying a helmet won't cushion the blow at all. Of cours it does but we are not talking about impact helmets such as moto cycle helmets here, we are talking laminate armour that deflects blaster bolts.

Either way, he hit a lot harder than the Ewoks do in the film.

Really? We are doing this? You are aware we are discussing a SW movie right?

It hurt like a sunofa... but it didn't knock me over, it didn't take me out of it. And if it hadn't have happened to be my friend smacking me "for fun", I would have been able to take care of whoever hit me in the first place.

(and yes, he swung with all his might, according to him... he wanted to see "if I got knocked out")

Either way, he hit a lot harder than the Ewoks do in the film.

The weapon used makes a big difference. I did a bit of Heavy Weapon fighting in the SCA, and that is basically swinging Rattan sticks at each other, including hitting you in the head. In theory, you’re supposed to use “calibrated blows”, so that if you had been swinging a real sword and the recipient had been wearing standard chain mail, then that blow would have been enough to at least seriously injure them and take them out of the fight.

In practice, some people hit way harder than that. But even with calibrated blows, you can really get your bell rung or knocked out.

Now, in our group (the Fair Lakes School of the Sword, a.k.a., FLOSS) we sometimes practiced with plastic swords cut out of half-inch thick LDPE, which meant that they had an edge — a blunt edge, sure. But an edge none-the-less.

One day we were at fighter practice, and I wanted to see how good these things were compared to the rattan sword standard. So, I asked Sir Strykar to give me a calibrated blow to the head, using his practice sword. He seriously rang my bell, and buckled my knees.

Later, I asked how hard he had hit me, and he said that he had not given me a calibrated blow — he hit me a lot lighter, precisely because he knew how effective these things were and he didn’t want to knock me out.

The weapon you get hit with makes a huge difference. I’ll take a baseball bat over one of our LDPE practice swords any day.

Google Kaiser Carlille. I hate to bring that in here... But he was a 9 year old bat boy from Kansas getting accidentilly hit by a baseball bat on his helmet. He did not survive. Had your "friend" hit you harder or to the side of your head you might not only been knocked out but you could have been killed outright.

Do you know that game where there's a row of hanging marbles and you let one go and one comes off the other side? That is what is happening the impact needs to go somewhere. Now, I am not saying a helmet won't cushion the blow at all. Of cours it does but we are not talking about impact helmets such as moto cycle helmets here, we are talking laminate armour that deflects blaster bolts.

Umm yeah, I'm not gonna google that because I know how dangerous a baseball bat to the head can be.

However, I was not a child and I was wearing a military helmet.

Besides, my friend hit from above and behind, so my head was jolted forward.

But I was making the point that if that didn't knock me down, then why were the stormtroopers knocked down by tiny teddybears wielding stone clubs half the length of a baseball bat and with almost certainly less force than my friend hit me?

Oh and the "but it's only built for blasters" is out the window since people have already brought up EU material, and according to Wookieepedia, the armour protected not only against blasters but shrapnel and vibroblades, and even states that it was almost impossible to kill a stormtrooper using a slugthrower (unless you used an abnormally large caliber or armour piercing bullets).

So I'd say a short stone-club wielded by a half-sized teddybear would do that much damage.

(also, the spears and arrows would be pretty much harmless).

Really? We are doing this? You are aware we are discussing a SW movie right?

I am well aware, but the fact that some of us really found it hard to be convinced that a bunch of half-pint ewoks could knock down stormtroopers in full armour with stone clubs is something that apparantly has to be proven to be accepted by the "it's all fantasy and I'll believe anything so I don't get why everyone else doesn't" crowd (no offense to the OP as he has said that he now understands why some don't like it).

It hurt like a sunofa... but it didn't knock me over, it didn't take me out of it. And if it hadn't have happened to be my friend smacking me "for fun", I would have been able to take care of whoever hit me in the first place.

(and yes, he swung with all his might, according to him... he wanted to see "if I got knocked out")

Either way, he hit a lot harder than the Ewoks do in the film.

The weapon used makes a big difference. I did a bit of Heavy Weapon fighting in the SCA, and that is basically swinging Rattan sticks at each other, including hitting you in the head. In theory, you’re supposed to use “calibrated blows”, so that if you had been swinging a real sword and the recipient had been wearing standard chain mail, then that blow would have been enough to at least seriously injure them and take them out of the fight.

In practice, some people hit way harder than that. But even with calibrated blows, you can really get your bell rung or knocked out.

Now, in our group (the Fair Lakes School of the Sword, a.k.a., FLOSS) we sometimes practiced with plastic swords cut out of half-inch thick LDPE, which meant that they had an edge — a blunt edge, sure. But an edge none-the-less.

One day we were at fighter practice, and I wanted to see how good these things were compared to the rattan sword standard. So, I asked Sir Strykar to give me a calibrated blow to the head, using his practice sword. He seriously rang my bell, and buckled my knees.

Later, I asked how hard he had hit me, and he said that he had not given me a calibrated blow — he hit me a lot lighter, precisely because he knew how effective these things were and he didn’t want to knock me out.

The weapon you get hit with makes a huge difference. I’ll take a baseball bat over one of our LDPE practice swords any day.

That's fine and dandy, but we're still talking about half-sized teddybears using short wooden/stone clubs and firing flint-tipped arrows from flimsy shortbows.

Size matters not

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

Size matters not

It hurt like a sunofa... but it didn't knock me over, it didn't take me out of it. And if it hadn't have happened to be my friend smacking me "for fun", I would have been able to take care of whoever hit me in the first place.

(and yes, he swung with all his might, according to him... he wanted to see "if I got knocked out")

Either way, he hit a lot harder than the Ewoks do in the film.

The weapon used makes a big difference. I did a bit of Heavy Weapon fighting in the SCA, and that is basically swinging Rattan sticks at each other, including hitting you in the head. In theory, you’re supposed to use “calibrated blows”, so that if you had been swinging a real sword and the recipient had been wearing standard chain mail, then that blow would have been enough to at least seriously injure them and take them out of the fight.

In practice, some people hit way harder than that. But even with calibrated blows, you can really get your bell rung or knocked out.

Now, in our group (the Fair Lakes School of the Sword, a.k.a., FLOSS) we sometimes practiced with plastic swords cut out of half-inch thick LDPE, which meant that they had an edge — a blunt edge, sure. But an edge none-the-less.

One day we were at fighter practice, and I wanted to see how good these things were compared to the rattan sword standard. So, I asked Sir Strykar to give me a calibrated blow to the head, using his practice sword. He seriously rang my bell, and buckled my knees.

Later, I asked how hard he had hit me, and he said that he had not given me a calibrated blow — he hit me a lot lighter, precisely because he knew how effective these things were and he didn’t want to knock me out.

The weapon you get hit with makes a huge difference. I’ll take a baseball bat over one of our LDPE practice swords any day.

That's fine and dandy, but we're still talking about half-sized teddybears using short wooden/stone clubs and firing flint-tipped arrows from flimsy shortbows.

Actually we're talking about people in furry costumes wielding props. That doesn't mean that something that small can't be a lot stronger than you'd think. Chimps, pound for pound, out class a person for strength. Hell, a 40 pound dog can knock you off your feet and drag you off with little problem even when you weigh 3 or 4 times their mass.

So, while the shortbows appear flimsy because they are meant to be non-lethal props for someone to carry around a movie set, doesn't mean that something like that can't really hurt if properly built.

Size matters not

It hurt like a sunofa... but it didn't knock me over, it didn't take me out of it. And if it hadn't have happened to be my friend smacking me "for fun", I would have been able to take care of whoever hit me in the first place.

(and yes, he swung with all his might, according to him... he wanted to see "if I got knocked out")

Either way, he hit a lot harder than the Ewoks do in the film.

The weapon used makes a big difference. I did a bit of Heavy Weapon fighting in the SCA, and that is basically swinging Rattan sticks at each other, including hitting you in the head. In theory, you’re supposed to use “calibrated blows”, so that if you had been swinging a real sword and the recipient had been wearing standard chain mail, then that blow would have been enough to at least seriously injure them and take them out of the fight.

In practice, some people hit way harder than that. But even with calibrated blows, you can really get your bell rung or knocked out.

Now, in our group (the Fair Lakes School of the Sword, a.k.a., FLOSS) we sometimes practiced with plastic swords cut out of half-inch thick LDPE, which meant that they had an edge — a blunt edge, sure. But an edge none-the-less.

One day we were at fighter practice, and I wanted to see how good these things were compared to the rattan sword standard. So, I asked Sir Strykar to give me a calibrated blow to the head, using his practice sword. He seriously rang my bell, and buckled my knees.

Later, I asked how hard he had hit me, and he said that he had not given me a calibrated blow — he hit me a lot lighter, precisely because he knew how effective these things were and he didn’t want to knock me out.

The weapon you get hit with makes a huge difference. I’ll take a baseball bat over one of our LDPE practice swords any day.

That's fine and dandy, but we're still talking about half-sized teddybears using short wooden/stone clubs and firing flint-tipped arrows from flimsy shortbows.

Actually we're talking about people in furry costumes wielding props. That doesn't mean that something that small can't be a lot stronger than you'd think. Chimps, pound for pound, out class a person for strength. Hell, a 40 pound dog can knock you off your feet and drag you off with little problem even when you weigh 3 or 4 times their mass.

So, while the shortbows appear flimsy because they are meant to be non-lethal props for someone to carry around a movie set, doesn't mean that something like that can't really hurt if properly built.

Then don't make them look flimsy.

That's the point here. They look like flimsy weapons and the Ewoks certainly don't look convincingly strong.

Why is this so hard for some to understand?

Some of us simply don't buy that Ewoks could overpower and kill Stormtroopers using those weapons.

This is a completely moronic discussion.

Some of us simply don't buy the illusion that half-pint sized teddybears with stone clubs and flimsy bows could defeat the Empire.

Let's leave it at that, ok?

Because there's no point in trying to convince eachother, because the side that does buy into it, will always be convinced that the Ewoks were either stronger than they looked or had better weapons than you'd think or that the Stormtrooper armour wasn't as protective as you'd think or that it was all hand-wavery.

And the ones that don't believe it, won't be convinced by any counter argument using those premeses.

The OP wondered why some had a problem with the Ewoks, and he's gotten his answer.

Well, since you mentioned it, the real problem for me with the scene isn't the ewoks. I can buy small, strong animals. My real problem is the ineptitude of the imperial elite, not only against the ewoks, but also in close quarters against the rebels earlier. The portrayal of stormtroopers in other movies was far better, even in, I dread to say so, the prequels. I'm fairly certain RotJ was one of the main reasons for the atrocious stormtrooper statlines in the WEG SW RPG. The ewoks could certainly have been handled better. I think even us who don't mind (or even like) them are willing to admit that, but the crux of the issue, as has been briefly alluded to before by other posters, is really in the Imperial Reaction and Lucas's focus on an, urgh, action comedy or whatever he was going for as opposed to the original script.

This is a completely moronic discussion.Some of us simply don't buy the illusion that half-pint sized teddybears with stone clubs and flimsy bows could defeat the Empire.Let's leave it at that, ok?Because there's no point in trying to convince eachother, because the side that does buy into it, will always be convinced that the Ewoks were either stronger than they looked or had better weapons than you'd think or that the Stormtrooper armour wasn't as protective as you'd think or that it was all hand-wavery.And the ones that don't believe it, won't be convinced by any counter argument using those premeses.The OP wondered why some had a problem with the Ewoks, and he's gotten his answer.

I kind of liked the discussion, especially since it was about something so irrelevant.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ewoks are the greatest evil in the Star Wars universe. They put the Sith to shame.

What was with the trap that Chewie sprung? This wasn't meant for even humans. This was clearly set to lure in and disable very large meat eating animals. Very large meat eating animals that the Ewoks were obviously capable of killing. These are not cuddly teddy bears. They are vicious killers.

They are also totally willing to kill and eat sentient creatures! They captured Leia, saw the potential she had to balloon up in size and decided to keep her around, fatten her up and eat her later. When they got Luke, Han, and Chewie, they decided to go right ahead and eat them immediately...despite the fact that they delivered their god to them.

Now consider the celebration scene. All those helmets they quickly turned into musical instruments. Those soldiers were obviously the main course of the feast.

Look at ROTJ. What were these things doing with all this weaponry?

They had gliders designed to drop small boulders.

They had GIANT multi-ton logs suspended at just the right height to smash AT-ST walkers.

They had rolling log traps containing dozens of logs set up to trip up AT-ST walkers.

They had catapults.

We are talking siege weapons here. They didn't whip this stuff up in a couple hours. They had this stuff built and prepared. They were planning on assaulting the empire on their own.

Now consider how quickly they adapted to technology. They learned how to pilot speeder bikes and AT-STs in just a few seconds. These are incredibly adept, intelligent individuals, who have prepared for war against the Imperials, and have no problem eating sentient species. How freaking scary is that?

Think of how effective of a war machine this is. Quickly adapt to any technology and use the enemy's weapons against them. No logistical needs because you just capture tech as you go and eat anyone you kill. It's efficient!

You want to know what they were doing on that moon? They were biding their time, just waiting. For what? For the Imps to finish the 2nd Death Star. Then they were going to strike! They would have attacked the shield base, captured the walkers and shuttles/ties, invaded the Death Star and taken it over from the inside. The entire Ewok population is moved to the mobile feeding station and they set off to eat their way through the galaxy in a massive battle station.

I halfway expect the New Order to be actually run by Ewoks. With the tech they captured during ROTJ, they could easily get off planet and start to conquer the galaxy.

Mark my words, the Rebels released a plague upon the galaxy when they allied with them on that moon. A cute, furry, plague.

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

I remember reading somewhere that in the late Middle Ages there were guys in heavy armor that got whacked with swords.

The swords never broke the armor but the guys wearing it died, because of impact damage.

Yeah, that is why most armor has very round edges... It is more made with the idea in mind to reflect the sword away from the body..

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

I remember reading somewhere that in the late Middle Ages there were guys in heavy armor that got whacked with swords.

The swords never broke the armor but the guys wearing it died, because of impact damage.

I bet most of the weren't killed by people half their size

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

I remember reading somewhere that in the late Middle Ages there were guys in heavy armor that got whacked with swords.

The swords never broke the armor but the guys wearing it died, because of impact damage.

I bet most of the weren't killed by people half their size

It happens...

Here is my problem with Ewoks in RotJ

Originally it was suppose to be wookiees. But The great flanneled one wanted primitives, sticks and stones, and since Chewbacca could use technology that made everyone assume wookies were a spacefaring species.... supposadly

Yet we have CGI wookies in RotS and they were using things that LOOKED primitive.

Here is my problem with Ewoks in RotJ

Originally it was suppose to be wookiees. But The great flanneled one wanted primitives, sticks and stones, and since Chewbacca could use technology that made everyone assume wookies were a spacefaring species.... supposadly

Yet we have CGI wookies in RotS and they were using things that LOOKED primitive.

Not sure what primitive stuff they were using... Yes, they used a lot of wood for their buildings and possibly liked wood as a material for its asthetic, but they had huge forests visible in the battlefield. But they were planting explosives and utilizing bowcasters, some of which looked quite a bit heavier than what Chewbacca had in ep IV.

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

Actually, they don't use clubs. By their cut and design, the ewok melee weapons that aren't spears fall under the warhammer category, used to transfer as much force as possible on a single, small, square of circular, or spiked, focal point. And believe me, there are worlds between getting hit by a bat or a beer bottle (large, broad impact means the force of the blow gets spread around quite a bit) and a hammer (focal impact means higher penetration, more force upon a small zone. Where a club may concuss you, a hammer will outright cave in your skull). In ye olden times, hammers and their ilk were the weapon of choice vs. enemies in heavy armour for pretty much that reason. Even if they didn't go through the material, they'd dent it, deform it and transfer enough force beneath it to cause serious to lethal injuries.

I remember reading somewhere that in the late Middle Ages there were guys in heavy armor that got whacked with swords.

The swords never broke the armor but the guys wearing it died, because of impact damage.

I bet most of the weren't killed by people half their size

Do you have a problem with cavemen taking down mastadons with spears? What about Inuit dealing with polar bears? Each of those examples is someone less than half the size of their target, and well under half the mass, yet succeeding time and time again.

One word... Napoleon.