Sigh the AT-ST getting destroyed by traps.

Well thats pretty obvious why it happened.

1. Its a two legged walker that has to follow paths that the Imperial Engineering Team cut in the woods.

2. Its very difficult to see or even move given what we saw of the density of that forest

3. Sensor's are crappy for detecting wood and vines.

4. They came from above the Walker which by the way did not for some unknown reason have a dude spotting on top with a heavy autofire blaster. (Which makes it incredibly vulnerable to thermal detonators in the hatch or Ewoks shoving spears in the viewing slits to kill cramped Imperial Crews)

5. Catapults, snares, log traps don't actually take long to make if you have a few hundred ewoks making them. Its like an Amish Barn Raising only for traps.

6. I'm pretty sure most of the stuff Ewoks used were for fighting off Giants that also live on Endor.

Stone Arrows and Spears can't cut through cloth?

Umm Native Americans massacred Chain Mail wearing Norse using nothing more then stone arrows, spears and wooden clubs. Not once, but multiple times.

They also did it to Settlers from Europe as well.

The biggest reason Native Americans lost to European settlers was disease not technology.

I'm actually watching the battle of Endor again right now (just because I felt I hadn't watched it in a while), and I could have accepted the Ewoks part in it if it had just stayed at the distraction level.

It works perfectly fine with them showing up and showering the Stormtroopers with ineffective, but very distracting, flint-tipped arrows (of course, those arrows would be dangerous to the officers that didn't have armour) and then as a distraction to spread out the imperial forces while the rebel troops dealt with them.

But that's not what happens.

It starts out that way, but then the Ewoks start destroying AT-ST's with strangely well-placed traps (that would have taken ages to prepare) and siege machines (really? They used catapults? Static ones, no less, so hardly for "hunting").

And they also manage to actually kill stormtroopers (or at least incapacitate them) with sticks and rocks. Some even go down from rocks the size of a fist being thrown at their helmets... really? If that's all it takes to knock out a Stormtrooper, then I don't know why every planet hasn't revolted already!

Chewie takes over an AT-ST, which is believable (although, the tarzan shout is a bit silly) and that, in combination with the rebel forces launching a counterattack while the imperial forces are distracted, would have been alot more believable than the Ewoks playing such a large part in the actual combat.

So they have advanced traps, this is Star Wars!... Catapults aren`t for hunting? This is Star Wars.. And maybe protection(have you seen a gorax?).

Those catapults and traps could have been there for years and years and been part of their clever tarpping culture for eons! If that is too much suspension of disbelief, I`m not sure if Star Wars, fantasy or sci-fi is for you... Sorry.

And a little fun fact, thos spears and arrows ar filled up with the Force;) Either ewok shamanism Force or Luke put it in there....

Oh fine, the force did it.

Then you are obviously fine with Gungans, the prequels, greedo being buddies with anakin, anakin building C-3P0 and both droids hanging around with Obi-wan and anakin for ages and yet neither of them recognizes them in the old movies... and all that stuff...

because... da forze

Nope, I`m not I have my standards.. But as a story element, I can`t see the same problems with ewoks. They are not a cheap joke or plain comic relief characters, they actually do something, they are not deus ex machinas, plot holes or lazy writing.

Btw. you forgot midichlorians... We can all unite on hating those!

This ^

Ugh, fine, I'll reply to that error ridden post then. (I ingored it because it was so filled with errors that I didn't even think it was a serious one)

The Ewoks had quite a few advantages.

1. Numbers the Ewoks out numbered the Imperial Troops at least 10 to 1.

2. Terrain the dense forest limits the effective range of blasters due to poor visibility it also eliminates the effectiveness of most of the Imperial vehicles.

3. No real defensive positions to slow down an Ewok Charge meaning you might kill dozens of Ewoks, but without a defensive position they are just going to get overwhelmed and killed.

4. Armor Storm Trooper armor is terrible. limited visibility large gaps at the joints and limited mobility.

5. Morale the Ewoks are religious zealot cannibals while the Imperials are conscripted troopers assigned to a crappy post.

6. Size the actual size of an Ewok especially given how the brush in the dense forest is bigger then they are means that the Storm Troopers who have problems hitting normal people sized targets relying entirely on volume of fire are even more likely to miss.

Technology really doesn't matter if you can't use it effectively to win.

1. How do you factor that? From the movie, you don't see many more Ewoks than you see stormtroopers and scout troopers.

2. Eh, sure, but apparantly it doesn't limit the effective range of bows and spears? That's kinda BS. Also, the Imperial vehicles on that planet were there for a reason. They were scout vehicles used on planets just like this one. I don't see them limited in any way during the movie. The walkers have no trouble moving around (and decimating the Ewoks), and the speeders certainly have no trouble moving around either.

3. Sure, if the Ewoks had used human wave (ewok wave?) tactics. But they didn't. Not once. And that still relies on them outnumbering the imperials, which they still don't appear to do in the movie.

Also, no real defensive positions? It's a jungle! It's filled with defensive positions! Not to mention a bunker and several imperial walkers.

4. Still enough to hold up against a flint tipped arrow or spear. Hell, thick cloth would be enough to stop that in most cases. And you really don't have any in-movie evidence that the armour is limiting their mobility. Sure, the visibility is hinted at by Luke, but then he's the only one that complains, and he's "too short" anyway, so the helmet is most likely too large.

Truth is, you don't have any in-movie reference to what the black undersuit is made up of. It could be puncture proof for all we know.

Point is, the stormtrooper armour would be more than enough to effectively repel flint-tipped arrows and even flint clubs being bashed on them.

5. That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day. Stormtroopers are just as zealot as the Ewoks. There are examples of both running away during battles. And this Legion was one of the Empires elites. Most elites aren't "conscripted soldiers assigned to a crappy post".

6. Storm troopers don't seem to have much trouble hitting people unless it's the movies heroes. And there's plenty of theories that explain the "stormtrooper inaccuracy" during the first movie (and even during cloud city in the second one).

Also, the small size of the Ewoks works as a disadvantage when they're using primitive weapons that rely on physical force to do damage. They simply don't have the strength to use those weaopns as effectively as a human sized creature would.

Technology sure doesn't matter if you can't use it.

But if you look at the battle in the movie, you'll see that they're using it pretty darned effectively.

It's just "movie magic" that makes the Ewoks win.

Your games must be so much fun...

Well, my players haven't complained over the 28 years I've been GM'ing so far.

Your games must be amazing flights of fancy though, where pretty much anything is possible with a whimsical wave-of-the-hand explanation.

I'm actually watching the battle of Endor again right now (just because I felt I hadn't watched it in a while), and I could have accepted the Ewoks part in it if it had just stayed at the distraction level.

It works perfectly fine with them showing up and showering the Stormtroopers with ineffective, but very distracting, flint-tipped arrows (of course, those arrows would be dangerous to the officers that didn't have armour) and then as a distraction to spread out the imperial forces while the rebel troops dealt with them.

But that's not what happens.

It starts out that way, but then the Ewoks start destroying AT-ST's with strangely well-placed traps (that would have taken ages to prepare) and siege machines (really? They used catapults? Static ones, no less, so hardly for "hunting").

And they also manage to actually kill stormtroopers (or at least incapacitate them) with sticks and rocks. Some even go down from rocks the size of a fist being thrown at their helmets... really? If that's all it takes to knock out a Stormtrooper, then I don't know why every planet hasn't revolted already!

Chewie takes over an AT-ST, which is believable (although, the tarzan shout is a bit silly) and that, in combination with the rebel forces launching a counterattack while the imperial forces are distracted, would have been alot more believable than the Ewoks playing such a large part in the actual combat.

So they have advanced traps, this is Star Wars!... Catapults aren`t for hunting? This is Star Wars.. And maybe protection(have you seen a gorax?).

Those catapults and traps could have been there for years and years and been part of their clever tarpping culture for eons! If that is too much suspension of disbelief, I`m not sure if Star Wars, fantasy or sci-fi is for you... Sorry.

And a little fun fact, thos spears and arrows ar filled up with the Force;) Either ewok shamanism Force or Luke put it in there....

Oh fine, the force did it.

Then you are obviously fine with Gungans, the prequels, greedo being buddies with anakin, anakin building C-3P0 and both droids hanging around with Obi-wan and anakin for ages and yet neither of them recognizes them in the old movies... and all that stuff...

because... da forze

Nope, I`m not I have my standards.. But as a story element, I can`t see the same problems with ewoks. They are not a cheap joke or plain comic relief characters, they actually do something, they are noe deus ex machinas, plot holes or lazy writing.

Btw. you forgot midichlorians... We can all unite on hating those!

Actually, I disagree... they might not be cheap jokes or plain comic relief characters (although, some of the scenes would contradict that), but they are easy "wave-of-the-hand" macguffins for the rebel victory.

A much more believable rebel victory would have been if the battle played out largely the way it did, with the Ewoks being a great distraction, but the Rebel troops actually doing something once they were freed. As it stands, they pretty much just vanish as soon as the Ewoks start their "attack".

There were enough Rebel commandos to take out a large part of the Imperial forces while they were distracted by the Ewoks.

But nooo... the Ewoks beat the empire with sticks and stones... Apparantly the rebels had been using the wrong weapons all this time.

Blasters are for weaklings, flint-tipped spears is where it's at.

Especially when wielded by pint-sized teddybears.

Although have you ever played the Endor Hunt on Battlefront II? Nasty devils.

I have it was not fun. I took a great deal of glee from murdering the furballs.

I'm not sure why the Empire didn't clear-cut the forest (via turbolasers) away from the shield generator for a few km in every direction before construction. It's not like the Empire could really hide the generator, and its not like there weren't going to be other defenses in system to deal with curious eyes.

Well, my players haven't complained over the 28 years I've been GM'ing so far.

Your games must be amazing flights of fancy though, where pretty much anything is possible with a whimsical wave-of-the-hand explanation.

Well yea, pretty much spot-on!.... First rule of improv: always say "yes and...", so my players, obligations and narrative dice tell the stories at least as much as I do.

Damnit, you have me beat with 10 years!...

Your games must be so much fun...

Ah, down to the level of accusing people of having wrongbadfun? I get that you like Ewoks, but implying that other posters are bad roleplayers because they do not is pretty unnecessary.

(For the record, born in 1969, so you know where I am on the Ewok Line)

Do I have an issue with Ewoks? Naw. Why? Because, at it's core, what is Star Wars? Its a big ol' fairy tale with magic and evil knights and flying castles and princesses needing rescuing and heroic good guys in white hats and dastardly bad guys in black hats. And Fairy Tales have happy endings. It wouldn't be much of a happy ending if we saw ewoks being gunned down left, right and center.

Because they're obviously short people in teddy bear suits and looked stupid.

Arrogance? "We're the badasses on the block, nobody can challenge us, so why bother!"

People who think technology wins wars haven't learned much from History.

In World War II Germany had vastly superior technology to the Allies in several areas.

We won via production not via having superior technology.

The Imperial Troops on Endor were at a disadvantage against the Native Ewoks.

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Vietcong

Just like the Russians were at a disadvantage against the Mujhideen

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Taliban

The Imperials have to bring in supplies and equipment from off planet.

The Imperials only control the area where the base is and are at a huge disadvantage the moment they go into the forest.

This does not in anyway shape or form lessen the Rebel Alliance.

I'm fairly certain if an inferior number of Ewoks attacked an Imperial Base on another planet they would get slaughtered to the teddy bear.

So what if the Imperials only control the area around their base? They weren't trying to take the fight to the Ewoks. They were just trying to hold a fortified position that they had prepared as a trap against a full-on Rebel attack.

Your games must be so much fun...

Ah, down to the level of accusing people of having wrongbadfun? I get that you like Ewoks, but implying that other posters are bad roleplayers because they do not is pretty unnecessary.

Your right, that was a cheap shot. I`m sorry.

People who think technology wins wars haven't learned much from History.

In World War II Germany had vastly superior technology to the Allies in several areas.

We won via production not via having superior technology.

The Imperial Troops on Endor were at a disadvantage against the Native Ewoks.

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Vietcong

Just like the Russians were at a disadvantage against the Mujhideen

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Taliban

Plus some very important tech the allies had in WW2 was superior, for example our use of Radar was vastly better, a critical piece of tech. Then there was that little gizmo called the atom bomb...

Vietnam was a political fiasco. A snap of the fingers and an American mechanized corps could've erased North Vietnam.

The Russians lost in Stan precisely because of high tech as the CIA was feeding than high end anti air missiles and anti armor weapons which were devastating the inferior Russian tech.

The Taliban live in caves in the federated tribal regions of Pakistan, when they used to rule from on high in Kabul. The recently penned agreement between Islamabad and Beijing for a super economic corridor in Asia finally has the Pakistanis off their asses and taking care of bizzness on their side of the mountains, so I wouldn't bet money on the Taliban if Washington, Islamabad and Beijing all want them gone.

I'm not sure why the Empire didn't clear-cut the forest (via turbolasers) away from the shield generator for a few km in every direction before construction. It's not like the Empire could really hide the generator, and its not like there weren't going to be other defenses in system to deal with curious eyes.

Well, they probably did... from the shield generator.

The bunker that the rebels went into was a back door that wasn't near the generator (apparantly).

But yeah, I would have cleared out the area around the back door as well.

People who think technology wins wars haven't learned much from History.

In World War II Germany had vastly superior technology to the Allies in several areas.

We won via production not via having superior technology.

The Imperial Troops on Endor were at a disadvantage against the Native Ewoks.

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Vietcong

Just like the Russians were at a disadvantage against the Mujhideen

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Taliban

The Imperials have to bring in supplies and equipment from off planet.

The Imperials only control the area where the base is and are at a huge disadvantage the moment they go into the forest.

This does not in anyway shape or form lessen the Rebel Alliance.

I'm fairly certain if an inferior number of Ewoks attacked an Imperial Base on another planet they would get slaughtered to the teddy bear.

History is way more filled with examples of technologically advanced nations decimating primitive cultures.

The American Indians come to mind.

Or the Brittish colonialism in general.

It's interesting that every single example people have brought up (with, maby the exception of the Zulu nations one victory) has been of outnumbered rebel forces armed with largely the same level of technology, only on a much smaller scale.

You're basically describing the rebellion.

I've yet to see any examples where a culture armed with stone-age spears, axes and shortbows have bested a modern military force.

The closest would be the the battle of Isandlwana, where 20.000 zulu warriors armed largely with spears (but also muskets and rifles) attacked and overran a force of ca 1800 brittish soldiers armed with repeater rifles. However, the Zulu largely won because the brittish forces couldn't open their ammunition boxes fast enough to supply their firing lines. It's not even close to the situation we have in RotJ.

The point is not whether it's 'realistic', but that it's specifically the story George wanted to tell. He wanted to tell a story of a primitive culture helping to defeat a more powerful but overconfident Empire.

But yeah, I would have cleared out the area around the back door as well.

So this is a lesson all Imperials should have learned.

I guess we should be glad that the stone age Ewoks didn't find long-abandoned VTOL aircraft and somehow have them repaired and flying into battle like the humans in Battlefield Earth.

I guess we should be glad that the stone age Ewoks didn't find long-abandoned VTOL aircraft and somehow have them repaired and flying into battle like the humans in Battlefield Earth.

Egads. Invoking that film is a nuclear option....

If the Empire was just defending their position and not attacking then why send reinforcements to continue the pursuit when requested? Why not pull back and hold the line?

Also, the rebels were only a small strike force, they could not have taken the legion of Imperial troops without the aid of a legion of ewoks. All we are shown are the ewoks victories, the battle was raging well up to the time the bunker was destroyed.

The foliage most likely provided cover for the shield generator. As any ship entering Endor space would only have a Death Star on their scanners and a hidden shield generator on the moon would be more difficult to detect. Clear away the foliage for kilometers and you lose that protection. And we know the Death Star would jam anyone from getting any reading on the Death Star's shields, which would help maintain the secret until Imperial forces dealt with the threat.

I'm not sure why the Empire didn't clear-cut the forest (via turbolasers) away from the shield generator for a few km in every direction before construction. It's not like the Empire could really hide the generator, and its not like there weren't going to be other defenses in system to deal with curious eyes.

Well, they probably did... from the shield generator.

The bunker that the rebels went into was a back door that wasn't near the generator (apparantly).

But yeah, I would have cleared out the area around the back door as well.

People who think technology wins wars haven't learned much from History.

In World War II Germany had vastly superior technology to the Allies in several areas.

We won via production not via having superior technology.

The Imperial Troops on Endor were at a disadvantage against the Native Ewoks.

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Vietcong

Just like the Russians were at a disadvantage against the Mujhideen

Just like the Americans were at a disadvantage against the Taliban

The Imperials have to bring in supplies and equipment from off planet.

The Imperials only control the area where the base is and are at a huge disadvantage the moment they go into the forest.

This does not in anyway shape or form lessen the Rebel Alliance.

I'm fairly certain if an inferior number of Ewoks attacked an Imperial Base on another planet they would get slaughtered to the teddy bear.

History is way more filled with examples of technologically advanced nations decimating primitive cultures.

The American Indians come to mind.

Or the Brittish colonialism in general.

It's interesting that every single example people have brought up (with, maby the exception of the Zulu nations one victory) has been of outnumbered rebel forces armed with largely the same level of technology, only on a much smaller scale.

You're basically describing the rebellion.

I've yet to see any examples where a culture armed with stone-age spears, axes and shortbows have bested a modern military force.

The closest would be the the battle of Isandlwana, where 20.000 zulu warriors armed largely with spears (but also muskets and rifles) attacked and overran a force of ca 1800 brittish soldiers armed with repeater rifles. However, the Zulu largely won because the brittish forces couldn't open their ammunition boxes fast enough to supply their firing lines. It's not even close to the situation we have in RotJ.

Umm the Native Americans were decimated by superior numbers, disease, the near eradication of the food they relied on and a few other things. Its a long held historical theory that if the Native Americans had not almost been killed by disease before the colonists arrived they would have massacred them like they did the Vikings hundreds of years earlier.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/03/native-americans-didnt-wipe-europeans-diseases/

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2012/05/20/american-history-myths-debunked-indians-werent-defeated-white-settlers-113869

So no it was not technology that let America win its the fact that most of thier population was already dead from disease.

Man RodianClone, way to start up the fanboy nerdrage here...

I am only going to say this one more time everybody! Ewoks, regardless if they runined the ROTJ or you love them, either way, they are not CANNIBALS!!!!! NERDRAGE POWER UP!!!!

Anything that eats humans (other than humans) are not cannibals. Eating your own species is cannibalization. If an alligator or shark, or lion, or whatever eats a human, we don't classify them to be cannibals. Some sharks are know to eat other sharks, but typically only when food is super scarce, kind of like humans... Anyway, I have never seen anywhere where Ewoks eat each other. Was it in the Ewoks cartoon?

bloopbloopbloop, back to normal size now...nerdrage power up time limit is over.

Oh, and get your own dang avatar instead of stealing mine!

If they eat members of multiple sentient species including droid they probably eat each other.

Don't be fooled by the cute furry exterior they are totally cannibals.

Dam it hey fooled me with that cute and cuddly exterior, but I never saw the menacing mayhem and murderous intent in their eyes until it was too late.

I don't have a problem with the ewoks, but some people do, and I sympathize. I don't think it has anything to do with realism though, and everything to do with a bizarre tonal shift. This is supposed to be the culmination of these characters' adventures, and it devolves into pratfall-based comedy. This is a series that got really dark, and while there's a place for levity in any story, the mounting climax isn't really the place for it (especially when the comedy seems so out of step with the comedy in the rest of the series). Further, he entire trilogy has been about a group of upstarts facing down a nigh insurmountable Empire, and it kind of deflates that conflict to have them turn into the Keystone Kops. It doesn't help that the first half of the movie and Empire were so **** good. The sequences at Jabba's palace really captured the serial space adventure feel better than anything else in the trilogy, giving all the characters opportunities to shine and essentially wrapping up all the story arcs except for Luke's final showdown. I think the last half of Jedi would be at risk of treading water with or without teddy bears, but their presence just gives haters an easy target.

You guys are MEANIE PANTS for hating on my cute, cuddlies!

I'm such a terrible Star Wars fan. I think ewoks were adorable (if you forget that they were originally going to cook and eat our heroes) and I love Jar Jar. So please accept the above in that lignt.

Chewbacca used to scare me. I thought he was really going to break R2D2 when they were playing chess.