The sections on starships and NPCs/Threats seem really thin. I could have sworn there were more NPC ship stat-blocks present in the preview for that chapter.

I think I counted fifteen or so stat-blocks in the NPC section and only a couple of sample NPC ships in the Starship section.

Is there really nothing more than that included in the core book? If not, I'm highly disappointed in FFG.

SS

I don't know what's so disappointing. There are a few examples of NPC vessels, plus an example PC vessel, all of which could be easily added to/subtracted from to make them vastly different. Plus, you can always bang out your own NPC vessels by using the building process.

As for NPCs, not only do they kind of cover all the bases, but any and all of the stuff that's been published for DH is perfectly valid.

I'd vastly prefer having brand new background and information/ tweaked rules/ new talents/ careers, etc, rather than repeated NPCs in books I already own. For instance, there is nothing in Creatures Anathema that would prevent it from being used in RT besides the psyker career in there (which uses DH rules, but there are rules in RT for converting between the two systems).

They can only make the book so big.

Ripper.McGuirl said:

And if there weren't rules for converting between the two systems of psykers, I'm not aware of anything that would stop a psyker using the DH rules operating in RT. Though I don't have the RT book yet so I might be wrong.

I don't agree, a game should be usable on it's own without relying on stat-blocks from another game. Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy might share the same system, but what about the people that don't own all of those books?

I find it very disappointing that there isn't a nice selection of pre-made ships to choose from and edit. To help me make more ships I would have greatly preferred a number of ships from various classes to use as a reference for building my own ship. Of course I can make and roll up my own, but I don't have a lot of time for that sort of thing, so I rely on the actual game book to provide a good reference. That's hardly asking for too much, in my opinion.

I don't think the NPC section nearly covered all the bases. For example I saw no Navigators in there at all. That means I have to stat them up when I want them. There was also a total of ONE psyker stat-block. To me, that is lazy.

I realize they can only fit so much into a game book, but there are some very important things that are needed for a GM that doesn't have all the time in the world to create these things for himself.

Now, if they would release a PDF that had examples of more ships and NPCs I'd be happy, but until they do I will be disappointed that the designers didn't provide me with what I need to help build my game.

I've found that this is a trend from most companies today, books tend to cover a broad scope, but are very scarce on actual real detail. There are some exceptions to that rule, but I find that they are few and far between.

A quick edi t: I don't want to make it sound like I don't like the game, I love what they've done with it, but providing me with inadequate stat-blocks is just irritating.

When something isn't statted it's simple enough to modify what is statted, or use your imagination and work it up on the fly.

Yeah, I covered that. I don't feel I should need to do that.. in a game that has a system for starship combat, it is hardly questionable to expect a nice selection of statistics for... starships.

Shadowspawn said:

Lazy? LAZY? This book is immense and I have yet to find a single page that doesn't rock, after owning it over a month. It is one of the best, most well-produced, and heavily packed RPG cores I have ever seen. Furthermore, I have found the ship-building system so intuitive I can stat up a completely new ship in about five minutes, from any ship class, AND I was able to make good Eldar ship rules using the foundations already in place, and...

*takes a deep breath*

Sorry. I need a moment to calm down.

*pause*

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if they put in that stuff, this book couldn't fit in your house. Not only would it be too big, the sheer awesome would rise to such levels that you would be exposed to comic-book-style radiation and gain superpowers. And no one wants gamers with telepathy.

Wow. I was going to continue to engage, but you pretty much just trumped anything I could have said. Basically, we're just going to have to agree to disagree with Shadowspawn....because he's wrong. =]

In all seriousness, it sounds like he likes the game, he just wishes there was some more specific things that will hopefully be in later books. I can understand that, even if it doesn't matter to me.

I really don't feel like it's laziness that caused the omission, though, and think that its kind of unfair to hurl that around when the rest of the book kicks so much ass. But, to each his or her own.

Shadowspawn said:

I haven't read the book in detail yet, but if it's anything like the DH one, then there's a lot of content and a limited number of pages to dedicate to that content.

In which case, the question is "what would you take out, to make space for this extra stuff you want?"

The book has a set of starship design rules. That should, in and of itself provide for a large range of potential starship adversaries. That it takes time and effort to make use of it is a given, because GMing does take time and effort beyond the time spent actually running the game (that is an unavoidable fact of GMing)

This is the finest RPG book I've seen since Dark Heresy itself. The book demonstrates anything but laziness of any kind. There is more love and care put into this book than I could have imagined, and the collector's edition is like some kind of Nerd's Wet dream. The book could not really have been much longer, and the inclusiion of things like stat-lines (which any 'non-lazy' GM can whip up on their own in minutes) would have been a waste of precious page-count. How many generic ships do you really need, anyway? Are you already running fleet-engagements. Mook statlines were a given for both DH and RT as the players tend to carve a bloody swath through mooks of all kinds, but I don't think they'll be gunning down a whole staline full of generic starships anytime soon.

Furthermore, there is a 'starships' suppliment coming out at some point which will no-doubt be chocked full of such usefull tools as generic statlines. Patience, freind. Patience...

This was the ONE complaint I had about the entire book. There are hundreds if not thousands of various ships in the Imperium I would have liked more than four examples of them. I understand that I can make my own using the rules, but more for comparison would have been me a good baseline for what I was designing.

I probably shouldn't have said lazy considering the depth of the book, but I still remain disappointed. Now, if they'd give us a nice PDF with more ships I'd be happy as can be.

I'd also have liked some stats for ships like gun-cutters, I've always wanted to recreate situations like I read about in Eisenhorn. It would be great to have a Void-Master piloting a light ship in to provide some much needed close air support.

the great thing about a precential system is that making up an npc is really easy. It can literally be done on the fly (though this is not a good idea for recuring characters)

How often do you want them to succeed at a basic general action (say hitting people or talking to people)? thats the stat

Do you want them to be able to do something (lying, or treating wounds)? they have those skills

Are they very good at something? +10/20 to that skill

Ships are little different, but the you still only NEED a few things

How tough? Hull, armor, and void shields. Pick the class of ship that applies and use it, adjust as you see fit

How fast? speed, manuverability. as above

What are their guns? pick what you want

then Pick a percentage for how often you want them to hit (unadjusted), and succeed on their manuvers. these are the crews stats.

add anything special you want

that's it

Adding more NPCs would just have upped the page count, and therefor the cost and the production time. FFG mentioned (somewhere), that a lot was cut from the core book and moved to suppliments for exactly those reasons, cost and time.

The GM KIt, which I consider a must have anyway, will have rules for more starships including a way to randomly generate NPC ships. Give it a month or two...

That is good news, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

I guess I was just initially taken aback because the game was set in space, based around spacefaring vessels, and I felt like they didn't give that area as much focus as I was expecting.