I'd like to get into playing X-Wing online. The Steam interface looks beautiful and easy to use, so I am naturally attracted to it, but I feel like I hear more people talking about Vassal. I've messed around with Vassal offline and it seems a bit clunky – you have to juggle several windows and memorize a lot of key combos.

I'm hoping I could get some opnions from you all on:

1. What is the online player base like for each platform? Is it easier to find opponents on one of the platforms vs. the other?

2. Which platform is faster and easier to use?

3. Are both platforms updated with new material regularly?

Vassal is awesome.

The guys doing it updates it as soon as new stuff is revealed (not released) so you test new stuff sooner.

The interface takes a few games to get used to but then it's fine.

I don't think I have ever logged in on Vassal and not seen at least one game being played.

I'm confused... or else the OP is.

There is as far as I know, nothing on Steam that would allow you to play X-Wing miniatures. The only online option is Vassal.

There are a number of X-Wing video games you can get on Stream, but again those are video games and not the same thing as X-Wing miniatures.

Vassal will be updated with each release to this game, but the X-Wing video games as far as I know won't get any sort updates unless it's a fan based project as those games are really quite old. They're awesome and I spent no doubt a couple thousand hours playing them.

There is as far as I know, nothing on Steam that would allow you to play X-Wing miniatures. The only online option is Vassal.

Here is the link to the Steam platform:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=415295765

It looks soooo awesome. 3D rendering of all the ships, lots of different color schemes.

It says there are >6000 subscribers.

I don't like looking like a noobie, even when I clearly am. I installed Vassal a couple of months ago, the tutorials were fine, and all, but when it actually came to playing a game, I was gun shy - not that I was afraid to try Vassal, but that I was afraid of imposing on some poor sap who, looking for a game, would instead end up babysitting me through my teething period. So I just sort of played around in the sandbox. I hope to one day go further in than that.

The Steam thing is a board game simulator or something like that - similar to Vassal in that aspect, but (from what I understand), it isn't updated anywhere nearly as often, and is rather clunky. But this is all second hand information (except for where it is third hand or worse).

I was looking at the Steam version too. I'll try it if you try it.

Although, I don't know why it doesn't get taken down for copyright infringment or somesuch.

Looking at it... I wouldn't recommend it. Part of what lets Vassal stay alive, is that it doesn't actually include the cards or stats for the ships.

You have to own them to use them effectively. This program has the cards and everything in them, so I would expect that they'd be hit with a C&D order as soon as FFG got wind of it.

I was looking at the Steam version too. I'll try it if you try it.

Although, I don't know why it doesn't get taken down for copyright infringment or somesuch.

I just checked, and it says right now there are 100 people on-line for Steam X-wing, and 27 games going on. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to find an opponent...?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/xwingtts

And, yeah, I was wondering about the infringement question too. All the cards, tokens, dials, etc. look like they are rendered from photos. Looks amazing...

Looking at it... I wouldn't recommend it. Part of what lets Vassal stay alive, is that it doesn't actually include the cards or stats for the ships.

You have to own them to use them effectively. This program has the cards and everything in them, so I would expect that they'd be hit with a C&D order as soon as FFG got wind of it.

It looks like it's been around since April. I guess it's proof that FFG doesn't read the forums.

Uh...wow, yeah, there is *no way* that is legal.

Vassal is much faster to play due to automated movement and other options.

It also has anti-cheating measures (cannot change your dial on the table without your opponent knowing).

It is also not pretty.

I guess it's proof that FFG doesn't read the forums.

With as much time as I spend around here... If I've never heard of it here, then I can see why FFG hasn't either.

I've played a good bit on Vassal. The /r/XWingTMG sub on Reddit is currently doing a tournament on Vassal. I found it not too hard to learn the shortcuts, and I get better at using it all the time. I also found the Vassal community very friendly to new players. There's plenty of people willing to help teach you how to use the program, because each new player means a better chance of finding someone to play with next time you log on.

I don't like looking like a noobie, even when I clearly am. I installed Vassal a couple of months ago, the tutorials were fine, and all, but when it actually came to playing a game, I was gun shy - not that I was afraid to try Vassal, but that I was afraid of imposing on some poor sap who, looking for a game, would instead end up babysitting me through my teething period. So I just sort of played around in the sandbox. I hope to one day go further in than that.

The Steam thing is a board game simulator or something like that - similar to Vassal in that aspect, but (from what I understand), it isn't updated anywhere nearly as often, and is rather clunky. But this is all second hand information (except for where it is third hand or worse).

There's plenty of player that will be happy to help you learn vassal. There's a list of players who you can ask if you see them online in this post:

I guess it's proof that FFG doesn't read the forums.

With as much time as I spend around here... If I've never heard of it here, then I can see why FFG hasn't either.

Same here - I've never heard of this Steam app - which, if the obliteration of the painting thread can be taken as any indication - this thread has just effectively doomed the app to a quick 'cease and desist' - enjoy it while you can - looks cool

Vassal is free!!

Vassal is free!!

Yeah, which is why I was hoping for some more opinions about Steam. I'm hesitating on spending the $20 without getting some first hand reports...

I'm hesitating on spending the $20 without getting some first hand reports...

If they're charging for it, not only are they likely to get a C&D but are likely to get sued on top of it. Because they are now making money based on both FFG and Disney owned IP.

Myself I'd stay way clear of such a thing. Because it won't be there for long.

I noticed there are other FFG games on steam as well. Imp Assault for one. I also Saw 40k on there as well.

I haven't tried the Steam TableTop version of x-wing, as I don't want to fork money for it unless I knew it would be there to stay (probably not) and if it allowed exact play (it doesn't, the rotations are coarse only) and speed (everything has to be moved manually as its philoshophy is to imitate the physical carrying of pieces on the real tabletop - vassal used to be like this in late 2012 early 2013, no more - never again! ugh).

Two people who know the important shortcuts (movement, action declaration, automated barrel rolls, etc) can play much faster in vassal than on the real tabletop. Need to move 7 TIE fighters in banking formation? Group select and perform 1 move shortcut. Done.

The only thing that will never be sped up is the thinking during the planning, that's dependant on the people gaming

If you buy it, and it gets taken out, do you still get to play it regardless? Or do you get your money back?

Nevermind, just realised it is a mod and you actually pay for the underlying vassal-like tabletop simulator.

As someone who just started playing Vassal I would recommend it.

I've only had 2 games but everyone I have interacted with has been friendly, helpful and patient.

It's not so hard, just memorizing the short cuts.

So i'm in the community group for the TTS X-Wing group. Just here to give information from someone who actually has played it.

I've tried both, and frankly, i'd pick TTS every single time. Vassal looks and feels outdated. It feels like playing the original Star Warriors tabletop game, which was basically proto-X-Wing. TTS costs money, yes, so i can understand an unwillingness to pay for it when Vassal is free. But for someone like me who plays a LOT of tabletop games, TTS should be on your list anyways, since there's mod support for pretty much every single tabletop game ever made.

TTS is really easy to get behind compared to Vassal, at least in my opinion. Since it's a physics thing, you're not doing anything that you don't already know how to do in real life. You lay down your movement pieces, pick up your ship, and you move it. You drag tokens out of a bag and lay it down wherever you want. There's no keyboard shortcuts for moves because you do everything yourself, and personally i feel like that puts more feeling into the game. And being able to inspect your ships(which are appropriately colored for whoever you're flying; I.E. Wedge will have an X-Wing with the correct markings, as will Fel, etc.) is really neat as well. Vassal is what you play when you need to practice, TTS X-Wing is what you play when you want to blow off some steam with your buddies(not that you can't practice in TTS as well). It's actually fun, something ive never had when i played Vassal. I'd say if you're thinking about TTS, please attempt it. The community here is fading, and new blood will rekindle the flames.

Yeah, it's a little clunky, as it will be since you're losing a degree of motor control, but it feels better to play than Vassal. And the added bonus of being able to play whatever you want on TTS with full physics support.

I do appreciate the time and effort people like MuOn and others have put into Vassal; and I think it's great that FFG has allowed Vassal to continue as an onine option. OTOH I'm kind of of the opinion that any physical miniatures game is missing a huge marketing opportunity by not linking the purchase of a miniature to having a parallel object in an online electronic game.

Webkinz did this years ago with plush toys. With a miniatures game like X-wing, Armada, or Imperial Assault consumers could purchase a model and be provided a code that gives them access to that model in online versions of the game in question.

People can then play the electronic version, the physical version, or both as they see fit. Purchasing a model would give you permanent access to the model in the game as well as access to the game itself for a period of time. With Webkinz it was a year, but you could also pay for a subscription without purchasing a plush toy.

Just to quiet the peanut gallery it was my daughters who were into Webkinz.

Anyways a business model like that would give them another revenue path and would also allow them to track other info like sell though rates and model interest.

Because it can be difficult to get people together at my place to play x-wing. I'd happily be putting money into something like this that let me use the items I'd purchased remotely.