Big problem for torpedoes is well the TL action which makes it difficult for low pilot skill generics to use them and also point cost which makes expensive high skill pilots more expensive (thus adding their mov value to the opponent) without making it more survivable.

So here is an idea for an astromech droid. Some unique title like R3-B7.

Point cost 1.

Action: Skip your action step instead you may make a free target lock action at the end of the activation phase against one ship inside your firing arc. If you do you may not make any primary weapon attacks during the next combat phase.

This is something more for the mid to low pilot skill to help out with torpedo shots.

Thoughts?

I like the Idea but how about something simpler like

R3 Astromech (non unique)

"Action: You may Skip the preform action step this round to perform a free Target Lock Action at the start of the combat phase next round"

1 point

that way if you have to pay for the droid you get to use it for more then torps

So, I pay a point, then I skip my action (and thus am unable to take a target lock) so that at the end of the activation phase, I can take a target lock on a ship in my arc. Which I then can't use unless I have ordnance equipped.

Why wouldn't I just save the point, and take a target lock action? What's the benefit of waiting until the end of the activation phase to gain a target lock?

I much prefer X Wing Nut's idea. Basically you're banking an action in the early turns to gain a target lock once you engage the enemy. Lets you target lock and focus.

BBetter yet. R6 astromech "during the perform action step this droid can perform its own actions".....

Give the droid target lock.... Then u have a target lock and droid has one..... Can shoot and modify - there, torpedoes and x wing both fixed.

And what about ordnance carriers that do not have Astromech slots, like TIE Bombers?

So, I pay a point, then I skip my action (and thus am unable to take a target lock) so that at the end of the activation phase, I can take a target lock on a ship in my arc. Which I then can't use unless I have ordnance equipped.

Why wouldn't I just save the point, and take a target lock action? What's the benefit of waiting until the end of the activation phase to gain a target lock?

I much prefer X Wing Nut's idea. Basically you're banking an action in the early turns to gain a target lock once you engage the enemy. Lets you target lock and focus.

Banking the target lock until th combat phase allows you to lock onto ships that were outside your range during your action step. This is a well known problem for low PS ordnance carriers, who often move before their targets and miss out on a ordnance shot during the opening shots. Marinealver's fix would help fix that issue.

Here's one that's simpler but probably worth more than one point, and arguably even OP if you put it on Dutch Vander.

R9 Astromech: During the activation phase, you may choose not to perform an action. If you do, perform your action at the end of the activation phase.

Thus, it's not restricted to target locking, and the low PS ship can still choose to focus for defense if it turns out no viable targets are available.

As to the imperial side, I think they already have decent options for getting around this problem with ST-321/Jendon, Jonas and to some degree even Vessery.

Why even be so convoluted the issue with torps action economy is you can't modify torps. Just create a droid whose special ability modifies torps and missiles.

Abc astromech 2pts

Allows you to turn any eye results into hits when rolling to hit with a torp or missle.

It's slightly better then a target lock but worse then a focus since you can't use it on defense. The only bad thing is it makes torps even more expensive and uses the astro slot.

It helps with the problem of getting the target lock on low PS pilots during the early stages of the game. But it doesn't really solve the action economy, poor modification chances of the rolls, waste of squad points if it misses, etc. In general, they pale in comparison to the cannons.

Even when ordnance cards have text that try to modify their own attack rolls to mitigate the poor action economy, maybe we could think on something like

Remote Guidance System

Modification, Cost 3

When attacking with a (torpedo) or (missile) weapon, you may ignore the attack requirements and the rest of the text of the card. Read only the printed attack value and range.

After attacking, if it hits you must discard the card or a munitions token on it.

This would allow bomber ships to perform a number of consumable 3, 4 or 5 dice attacks during the game. It's like having a cannon that you cannot really spam, but on ships that don't usually have access to one.

For example, a TIE Bomber with Flechette Torpedoes and Remote Guidance System could attack with 3 dice at all ranges, until it hits, discarding the weapon (or munitions token). But at least it has had the chance to pay for itself.

R9 Astromech:

Cost: ?

You may treat the Attack (target lock): header as Attack (focus):.

When an attack instructs you to spend a target lock, you may discard this card instead. You may not spend any target lock tokens during this attack.

This card allows you to spend your focus token to modify your dice results, but not spend your target lock for any re-rolls.

R9 Astromech:

Cost: ?

You may treat the Attack (target lock): header as Attack (focus):.

When an attack instructs you to spend a target lock, you may discard this card instead. You may not spend any target lock tokens during this attack.

This card allows you to spend your focus token to modify your dice results, but not spend your target lock for any re-rolls.

For 1 point?

Azrapse

For 1 point?

...

Deadeye is definitly where I got the inspiration from, however because its an EPT, generic pilots cannot use it :\ I would love to slap Deadeye onto a group of Rookie Pilots.

Modification: Bomber targeting computer.

Do not spend a target lock when you fire a secondary weapon (torpedo or missile) 1 point.

Advanced bomber targeting computer. Do not spend a target lock when you fire a secondary weapon (torpedo or missile) additionally, when you fire, gain a focus token. (3 points).

Action: beat a dead horse

Discuss fixes for ordnance.

Unique Astromech R-101, 0 Points.

You may only equip a torpedo if you do not expect to easily acquire a target lock on a ship with a higher pilot skill than yours.

Seems like it would solve a lot of player misconceptions with torpedoes.

Action: Skip your action step

This part lost me - you see I look at this and see an infinite loop of backwards looping and re-doing.

My Action - I'll use the astromech

My opponent: But you skip your actions step, so you can't take the action in teh first place.

Me: Oh, ok I'll go back and undo-that since I can't take it.

Me: - oh wait, since I went back and didn't do it, I now have an action step.

Me: I'll use the Astromech

My oponent: You lose your action step - rendering the action impossible.

Me: I need the Doctor to show up and save me from this paradox.

And what about ordnance carriers that do not have Astromech slots, like TIE Bombers?

WE obviously need space bombs!.... A 5 attack bombs that u can't evade with dice..... However!!

U drop the bomb after u move, and the bomb continues moving straight at the same speed as when bomb was dropped. It doesn't move as soon as it was dropped, but moves next turn and every turn after until it hits or flies off screen. Since there is nobody guiding it the dice would be unmodifiable, but since a pilot would literally have to fly into a bomb then they shouldn't get to roll any evade dice since they had opportunity to evade already. Too OP? Make it targetable!! Hey, if u shoot it then it explodes and hits ships around it! There...... Fixed tie bombers too!

the single biggest problem with torps is that they're limited use weaponry (one-shot without EA)

this makes it incredibly difficult to design torps that are either a.) too weak to justify that one shot (which is generally what we have now) or b.) stupid broken (I'll stick top option A, thank you very much)

the TL restriction and spending would be a great balancing act if ordnance were of unlimited uses, which sadly they are not

incidentally, mines/bombs get around the limited use problem by being wholly independent of the rules surrounding making attacks (also the fact that they don't eat your primary attack is quite good) and by often having guaranteed returns (seismic, proton, ion bombs & conner nets. On that note, flechette torps (Guaranteed stress on the right targets) aren't bad at all

For an even remotely playable Astro it would have to do something like this:

1 Point

R8 Deadeye Astromech (Generic not unique)

You may spend a focus instead of a TL when firing a Missile or Torpedo.

You may change all eyeball results to boom results when firing a missile or Torpedo.

Feels really powerful, and yet still probably wouldn’t see play because missiles and torpedoes are still over costed for single use weapons, not to mention the opportunity cost of using the Astro slot.

the single biggest problem with torps is that they're limited use weaponry (one-shot without EA)

this makes it incredibly difficult to design torps that are either a.) too weak to justify that one shot (which is generally what we have now) or b.) stupid broken (I'll stick top option A, thank you very much)

the TL restriction and spending would be a great balancing act if ordnance were of unlimited uses, which sadly they are not

incidentally, mines/bombs get around the limited use problem by being wholly independent of the rules surrounding making attacks (also the fact that they don't eat your primary attack is quite good) and by often having guaranteed returns (seismic, proton, ion bombs & conner nets. On that note, flechette torps (Guaranteed stress on the right targets) aren't bad at all

Welcome to my personal hell; trying to add a reload system to torps/missiles without adding any new data fields to the cards.

In regards to using astromechs to address issues with ordnance, as has already been said it leaves a bunch of ships (and two factions) out in the cold. Having said that, there's nothing wrong with astros that improve your ability to use ordnance as well as being generally useful. Sticking with the idea of acquiring a Target Lock in the combat phase, I figure that instead of limiting it to ordnance make it a general TL but add a penalty, a couple of ideas I've had bouncing around in my head are below:

Astromech 1

At the start of the combat phase, you may receive a stress token to acquire a target lock on an enemy ship inside your firing arc at range 1 - 3.

Astromech 2

When declaring an attack you may spend a focus token to acquire a target lock on the defender.

An alternative to making the target lock easier is making the payoff better or easier to achieve, again keeping the astro generally useful but specifically beneficial to ordnance.

Astromech 3

When performing an attack with an equipped [ Torpedo ] secondary weapon at range 1 - 3 or with your primary weapon at range 3, you may reduce the defenders agility by one to a minimum of 0.

Bearing in mind that secondary weapons already don't allow the range 3 defence bonus so there is a benefit to getting that range 3 torpedo off, even though you still have to work for it.

In general and going a bit off the original post, if you're looking for a way to bump ordnance without re-writing the rules for them, there are only three common upgrade spaces you can use, title, modification and the ordnance upgrade itself. Title space already has a number of ship specific fixes in it (Royal Guard Tie, A-wing Test Pilot, Tie Advanced X/1) so it's probably not a good place to work with.

Lately I've been thinking that the ordnance upgrades themselves are a great place to put in patches. Consider:

Torpedo Upgrade

Your upgrade bar gains 1 [ Torpedo ] upgrade icon.

You must equip 1 [ Torpedo ] upgrade card with an Attack header in addition to this upgrade.

The upgrade takes a torpedo slot and gives a torpedo slot so it can be used on X-wings and E-wings. The second line is intended to prevent stacking of this type of upgrade though the text probably needs tightening. Finally there is room to add in actual ability such as rolling additional attack dice when performing a torpedo attack or reducing agility or dropping the target lock requirement. The same type of upgrade could be made available to missiles.

Overall it gives room to create more specific torpedo and missile patches without stepping on any of the other upgrades already out there. Of course, what would be good to do to make ordnance better without getter over powered I'm not so sure about.

So, in the games, if you fired ordnance at someone they either evaded, or they ate the ordnance. Some types of ordnance were easier to evade than others, but you still had to take evasive action, which meant you didn't get a clear run on your target.

What if we added a caveat to all ordnance that a defender could only roll green dice if it took a stress token? So they can either stay on target and eat the ordnance, or they can evade, losing their opportunity to take other actions and making their movement more predictable?

So, in the games, if you fired ordnance at someone they either evaded, or they ate the ordnance. Some types of ordnance were easier to evade than others, but you still had to take evasive action, which meant you didn't get a clear run on your target.

What if we added a caveat to all ordnance that a defender could only roll green dice if it took a stress token? So they can either stay on target and eat the ordnance, or they can evade, losing their opportunity to take other actions and making their movement more predictable?

Speaking in video game terms being shot at with a missle of some sort usually isn't super hard to dodge but it requires immediate and drastic repositioning. I think part of what makes ordnance so weak in this game is the insane idea you can just side step the thing like a laser and keep on trucking. You shouldn't be able to "ole" a torpedo regardless of how crappy the targeting is in the given projectile. It will move and change course and require effort to avoid. This would greatly improve the opportunity cost of the limited ordance and require no adjustments or titles or upgrades just like 2 sentences in the faq.

Big problem for torpedoes is well the TL action which makes it difficult for low pilot skill generics to use them and also point cost which makes expensive high skill pilots more expensive (thus adding their mov value to the opponent) without making it more survivable.

So here is an idea for an astromech droid. Some unique title like R3-B7.

Point cost 1.

Action: Skip your action step instead you may make a free target lock action at the end of the activation phase against one ship inside your firing arc. If you do you may not make any primary weapon attacks during the next combat phase.

This is something more for the mid to low pilot skill to help out with torpedo shots.

Thoughts?

Others have pointed out that the wording is not great but I think the premise is not bad. Still, though, there are several good astromechs that would be hard to bypass to use this instead not to mention that you are leaving out a lot of other ships that can use torpedoes but not droids.

I think a real fix has to be usable by all ordnance ships in a way that doesn't take up other useful upgrade slots. I have seen several ideas about "tracking" or "guided" ordnance that keeps chasing its target if it misses on the initial pass but there never seems to be a good way to do this given the current game mechanics. I have wrestled with this myself for a while and maybe something along the lines of "gunner" type card could simulate this in a way that could make sense from a fluff and game play stand point.

Improved Torpedo Guidance

Torpedo, 1 point

Your upgrade bar gains 1 Torpedo Icon

When attacking with a Torpedo Secondary Weapon, if the attack does not hit, you may immediately perform the attack again.

You may not perform any more attacks this round.

The wording might need adjustment or an FAQ so it is clear that the 2nd attack is just an extension of the 1st and does not require another target lock be spent or a second torp card (or extra munitions token) to be discarded.

[generic fix name]

Increase the range of equipped <missile> and <torpedo> cards by 1 to a maximum of 4.

Okay, I'm going to chime in with an idea for a fix. No idea why actually, since this will never actually be used by anyone, but I suppose it gives me at least some insight into how I think the game could improve.

Extended programming (1 point).

Modification.

Your upgrade bar gains the [system upgrade] icon if you have an astromech droid equipped. You cannot equip this card if your upgrade bar already has the [system upgrade] icon.

Think of the possibilities.