Daredevil: A ship that performs the Daredevil action follows all normal rules for executing a maneuver, except that the manuever is always treated as a white maneuver. Daredevil may be performed even if the ship would overlap another ship or obstacle; resolve the overlapping as normal.

Does it mean that it's still a white even if I get the Damaged Engine crit?

Damaged Engine: A ship equipped with R2 Astromech that has Damaged Engine assigned to it treats all of its turn maneuvers as red maneuvers, including the 1- and 2-speed turn maneuvers. Adrenaline Rush cannot be used to treat a red turn maneuver caused by a faceup Damaged Engine damage card as a white maneuver.

Daredevil is not listed in Damaged Engine faq, so I guess it may either be added (so no white turn, but red like the above examples) but until that I think the Daredevil turns stay white.

Or do the "Breaking Rules" paragraph on Core Rulebook (page20) steps in?

Some abilities on cards conflict with the general rules. In case of a conflict, card text overrides the general rules. If one card ability forbids an effect, while another ability allows it, the effect is forbidden.

What do you think?

The damage card would be the overriding result. Any other upgrades wouldn't be able to change it as it specifically states it will be a white maneuver.

I would say they changed it to make it such that Damaged Engine does not change the manoeuvre to red. That being the whole point of the FAQ update,

To me it seems that the FAQ suggests that Damaged Engine overrides everything and makes turns red regardless. There is no wording in Daredevil that says "always" treat it as a white maneuver. This seems to say that Daredevil would be a red maneuver in this case.

Does anyone think this is solid enough logic? Can anyone find better or definitive reasoning?

EDIT: I'm an idiot and it does say in the FAQ "always"... I wonder why they decided to add that wording which suggests Damaged Engine wouldn't matter.

Logic tells me that nothing can make it better (so no green, with r2 for example) but the crit makes it worse (so, red with damaged engine).

Still, it's not completely clear even if the "breaking rules" paragraph seems to suggest that the bad effect overrides the good one.

I'm playing Psycho Tycho these days and that situation just happened last night, and it makes a big difference when you carry something like 15 stresses and you can't turn anymore OR you can still 1 turn... so it's not so uncommon i guess.

Anyway as I see that those Faqs have some misprint and mistakes, so I hope that they'll fix it soon.

Daredevil creates a white maneuver. Damaged Engine modifies all turn maneuvers to red. Therefore, Daredevil turns with a Damaged Engine would become red 1 turns.

P.S. And that ladies and gentlemen is my 2000th post!

The faq would seem too contradict that. Your logic is sound, but if true, i dont see the purpose of the very specific wording about daredevil in the faq.

It really doesn't matter. Daredevil is an Action. There is not Check Pilot Stress step after executing the maneuver. That is why the errataed the card from bein a red maneuver to a white maneuver plus a stress token. Changing the maneuver difficulty has no game effect.

And if it mattered an effect that makes a maneuver more difficult takes precedence over effects that make them easier.

Rebolded to point out the key wording here:

Daredevil: A ship that performs the Daredevil action follows all normal rules for executing a maneuver, except that the manuever is always treated as a white maneuver. Daredevil may be performed even if the ship would overlap another ship or obstacle; resolve the overlapping as normal.

In other words, Daredevil's turn is treated as a normal maneuver, except that its color can't be changed by any other effects. So Damaged Engine doesn't change it to red, because this specific exception exempts it from changing color.

It's a tough call. If it doesn't change DareDevil's maneuver to red I can see it aiding Tycho. He can perform actions when stressed so even with damaged engine he could still pull hard ones. Stressed he can't perform red maneuvers. The only red on his dial is the K turn. He couldn't pull a hard one as a move but could follow a one bank with DD as a hard one. And get another stress.

If DE changes the maneuver to red he wouldn't be able to do a hard one regardless of having DD which would put a damper on his mobility.

I think the intent of DD was allow ships with a red hard one to perform the maneuver as a white and get a stress. Or in Tychos'case get another stress and stack additional actions. In keeping with the way crits affect upgrade cards I think Damaged Engine would override DareDevil.

If DE changes the maneuver to red he wouldn't be able to do a hard one regardless of having DD which would put a damper on his mobility.

If that was the logic behind this, then FFG have wasted time and effort on a total non-issue. So two cards out of 33 affect the playability of a card on a ship with 2 hull that will have much bigger issues with the fact that it is down to its last hit point. Was that really worth an FAQ entry that violates the regular rules?

If DE changes the maneuver to red he wouldn't be able to do a hard one regardless of having DD which would put a damper on his mobility.

If that was the logic behind this, then FFG have wasted time and effort on a total non-issue. So two cards out of 33 affect the playability of a card on a ship with 2 hull that will have much bigger issues with the fact that it is down to its last hit point. Was that really worth an FAQ entry that violates the regular rules?

I don't know. That's why I responded as I did. It's been said many times in other threads that the wording on some of the cards could use a clarification or worded differently. As more upgrades are added to the game there are going to be more questions about interactions.

So, what do you think? Does Damaged Engine over ride the upgrade that says 'always' or does DareDevil over ride Damaged Engine?

Thd English language can be very confusing at times. Two words that sound the same but with different meanings like patients and patience or one word that can be a small bush, an article of personal hygiene or a verb. The siuation gets worse in our case if more than one person is writing the cards. The situation is exacerbated by the developers. They spend a lot of time bringing us the game. They know what effects they and word the upgrades accordingly. Users don't have that luxury of association. We pick cards for their interactions. Sometimes those interactions get confusing.

I sent a rules request to FFG about this to hopefully clarify.

Actually StephenEsven has made a good point here. What does it really affect? Tycho aside, if you have a stress token to start with, you get no action, so no Daredevil. If you have a Damaged Engine card, it may change the white to red, but there's no check pilot stress after performing the action, so no consequence.

Now if we factor Tycho into the equation, he's usually/likely to be carrying a bucket load of stress tokens around by the time he's got a Damaged Engine card, which in turn is likely to make the Daredevil "normal maneuver" a red, so there may be one extremely slim chance this would be an issue. Tycho still can't perform a red maneuver when he's stressed. If the other side of the argument holds and the FAQ ruling keeps the Daredevil from being changed to red by Damaged Engine, then once again, no consequence.

I sent a rules request to FFG about this to hopefully clarify.

Thanks, keep us updated if they answer!

Again, it does not matter for a Stressed Tycho if DD is red or white. You are not performing a revealed maneuver from your dial, so there is no dial to hand over to your opponent for him to change to a non red maneuver.

Ideally the errata for DD should not even have mentioned a color for the maneuver. But they had to because we are used to thinking of maneuvers as red, white or green. They already made the error in the original print, making it red to incur the stress, then realized the color didn't matter. So they changed it to white + stress, because we think of white maneuvers as neutral in regards to stress.

Again, it does not matter for a Stressed Tycho if DD is red or white. You are not performing a revealed maneuver from your dial, so there is no dial to hand over to your opponent for him to change to a non red maneuver.

Ideally the errata for DD should not even have mentioned a color for the maneuver. But they had to because we are used to thinking of maneuvers as red, white or green. They already made the error in the original print, making it red to incur the stress, then realized the color didn't matter. So they changed it to white + stress, because we think of white maneuvers as neutral in regards to stress.

I didn't realise that the card had been changed under errata. I just started flying A-wings and used DD last nite. After thinking about it,you're correct it doesn't matter. After doing some research on this I think 'always' may have been added for ships that either don't have the hard one or if they do it's red, as a clarification.

It always bothers me (pun intended) when absolutes are added to clarify something. The two questions that immediately come to mind are 'why was it added?' and 'what does it affect ?'. Now I know.

Again, it does not matter for a Stressed Tycho if DD is red or white. You are not performing a revealed maneuver from your dial, so there is no dial to hand over to your opponent for him to change to a non red maneuver.

Ideally the errata for DD should not even have mentioned a color for the maneuver. But they had to because we are used to thinking of maneuvers as red, white or green. They already made the error in the original print, making it red to incur the stress, then realized the color didn't matter. So they changed it to white + stress, because we think of white maneuvers as neutral in regards to stress.

I didn't realise that the card had been changed under errata. I just started flying A-wings and used DD last nite. After thinking about it,you're correct it doesn't matter. After doing some research on this I think 'always' may have been added for ships that either don't have the hard one or if they do it's red, as a clarification.

It always bothers me (pun intended) when absolutes are added to clarify something. The two questions that immediately come to mind are 'why was it added?' and 'what does it affect ?'. Now I know.

I don't understand why you are talking about ships having a hard 1 turn. Whether they have it, and whatever colour it is if they do is completely irrelevant to Daredevil. The Errata'd card tells you what to do.

Execute a White 1 Turn manoeuvre. Then gain a stress.token.

EDIT: I'm an idiot and it does say in the FAQ "always"... I wonder why they decided to add that wording which suggests Damaged Engine wouldn't matter.

I believe it's written to stop Daredevil double stressing.

Again, it does not matter for a Stressed Tycho if DD is red or white. You are not performing a revealed maneuver from your dial, so there is no dial to hand over to your opponent for him to change to a non red maneuver.

Actually, the rules specify that you cannot execute red maneuvers if you are stressed (emphasis theirs). It doesn't matter if the maneuver if from the dial or a card. If it's a red maneuver you cannot execute it. So it DOES make a difference to Tycho.

Moreover, Stress is only assigned from maneuvers during the "Check Stress" step in the activation phase.
Therefore, original-flavor Daredevil dealt no stress.

Again, it does not matter for a Stressed Tycho if DD is red or white. You are not performing a revealed maneuver from your dial, so there is no dial to hand over to your opponent for him to change to a non red maneuver.

Ideally the errata for DD should not even have mentioned a color for the maneuver. But they had to because we are used to thinking of maneuvers as red, white or green. They already made the error in the original print, making it red to incur the stress, then realized the color didn't matter. So they changed it to white + stress, because we think of white maneuvers as neutral in regards to stress.

I didn't realise that the card had been changed under errata. I just started flying A-wings and used DD last nite. After thinking about it,you're correct it doesn't matter. After doing some research on this I think 'always' may have been added for ships that either don't have the hard one or if they do it's red, as a clarification.

It always bothers me (pun intended) when absolutes are added to clarify something. The two questions that immediately come to mind are 'why was it added?' and 'what does it affect ?'. Now I know.

I don't understand why you are talking about ships having a hard 1 turn. Whether they have it, and whatever colour it is if they do is completely irrelevant to Daredevil. The Errata'd card tells you what to do.

Execute a White 1 Turn manoeuvre. Then gain a stress.token.

I understand that some of these things were done for play balance, some for 'flavor' and others that I have no clue why. If you don't ask questions you don't get answers. That's why this forum exists. That's why there's a FAQ list. Answers to questions.