Fact: Hutts are overpowered, even if they can't get 5 Brawn at chargen.

Fact: Neimoidians are underpowered. No special abilities at all, just 1 lousy skill rank.

Conclusion: Sam Stewart is a slug-loving, Neimoidian-hating speciesist!

You may now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

The Characteristics may be indicators and guidelines, but ultimately they are just numbers that affect rolls.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree entirely. If game mechanics don't represent the "reality" of the game world suspension of disbelief disappears. Saying that having a character with 5 intelligence doesn't make your character inherently smarter than a character with 2 intelligence is like saying it's just a guideline that a (unmodified) blaster pistol does less damage than a blaster rifle. There are different ways that a character can be strong, agile, intelligent, or so on, and those are up to the player. You can totally fluff intelligence as somebody who isn't traditionally smart, but has a perfect memory for instance. Agility generally represents physical coordination, but maybe your character has great hand-eye coordination. What you can't do is play someone who constantly puts their foot in their mouth who has 5 presence, or someone with 5 willpower that's a coward. This contradicts the stats, which are part of the game mechanics, which generates the world you play in. If these things don't matter, the rules don't matter. Reductio ad absurdum.

The same with other characteristics. You could say a character with high intelligence is very stupid but his grandmother told all kinds of stories infront of the fireplace and shared lots of wisdom while he sat on her lap all day growing up.

A character with low Intelligence can be from a remote system, she is very smart, but ignorant about the ways, customs and cultures of the Galaxy... Or it can all be good luck or bad luck:p

The Characteristics may be indicators and guidelines, but ultimately they are just numbers that affect rolls.

On the one hand, Intelligence most definitely is not the same as Wisdom, and most games usually separate the two attributes.

OTOH, Wisdom passed down from the ages will only take you so far in the world, at which point you are likely to be well and truely screwed.

I would also observe that Intelligence most definitely is not the same as Creativity, but most games don’t separate those two attributes.

At some point, you’ve got to take what you’ve got and make some sense of it. When it comes to attributes as recorded in this system, I would say that a single point in an attribute would be a noticeable difference in the average performance of one individual versus another in given types of situations. OTOH, if someone with a high attribute is having a bad day and someone with a lower attribute is having a good day, then the latter could potentially beat the former and maybe do so with ease.

Same with skills. A higher number is noticeably more skilled, but that is not a guarantee of more success. It’s just a recognition of the difference in probabilities.

Either way, ultimately the dice will tell.

Yes, yes, I agree! The numbers have to be represented in the game world somehow, but you don`t have to flavour and fluff it as what is most obvius if you want to make it more interesting.

And with the high intelligence character, what I meant was if you want him to be stupid and simple as a character, you could explain his high intelligence rolls and results as "yea he knew that `cause his grams told him one time". That was what I meant with her "wisdom".

RodianClone, I suppose where we're in conflict then is over the examples you're giving on how one can fluff things. You can only go so far with non-traditional fluff though. It seems to me like what you're talking about with "what his grams told him" would be better represented by a low intelligence but high ranks in knowledge skills.

I can see where it might sound like my example of having a perfect memory as opposed to an aptitude for learning might seem similar to the stories idea, but the difference is the general vs. the specific. Someone who remembers everything they hear is going to to be good with most intelligence based skills, even if they might suck at math (an exception might astrogation). Someone who is stupid but has a vast knowledge base of stories would be best represented with ranks in knowledge skills, especially lore. Stories won't help you make a medicine check. It might help with Knowledge (xenology) to identify the poisonous snake that bit him, but not how to treat it. I hope I'm making sense.

RodianClone, I suppose where we're in conflict then is over the examples you're giving on how one can fluff things. You can only go so far with non-traditional fluff though. It seems to me like what you're talking about with "what his grams told him" would be better represented by a low intelligence but high ranks in knowledge skills.

I can see where it might sound like my example of having a perfect memory as opposed to an aptitude for learning might seem similar to the stories idea, but the difference is the general vs. the specific. Someone who remembers everything they hear is going to to be good with most intelligence based skills, even if they might suck at math (an exception might astrogation). Someone who is stupid but has a vast knowledge base of stories would be best represented with ranks in knowledge skills, especially lore. Stories won't help you make a medicine check. It might help with Knowledge (xenology) to identify the poisonous snake that bit him, but not how to treat it. I hope I'm making sense.

Sure you are making sense! But I`m saying you might interpret characteristics and skills more broadly, depending on the character and the rolls. It`s up to the players and the gm.

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Yea, but while using her whole body weight and a chain from behind, not only with one hand, like the hutt most likely could do to her... Believe it or not, smaller people have killed big and stronger people and animals in real life too..

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Yea, but while using her whole body weight and a chain from behind, not only with one hand, like the hutt most likely could do to her... Believe it or not, smaller people have killed big and stronger people and animals in real life too..

Sure but on the other hand we didn't exactly see them doing anything physically impressive either.

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Yea, but while using her whole body weight and a chain from behind, not only with one hand, like the hutt most likely could do to her... Believe it or not, smaller people have killed big and stronger people and animals in real life too..

Sure but on the other hand we didn't exactly see them doing anything physically impressive either.

That`s true. But the EotE books describes them as strong. But they can be very strong in their way without needing 5 in Brawn of course, as brawn can represent more than just pure strength!

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Yea, but while using her whole body weight and a chain from behind, not only with one hand, like the hutt most likely could do to her... Believe it or not, smaller people have killed big and stronger people and animals in real life too..

Sure but on the other hand we didn't exactly see them doing anything physically impressive either.

That`s true. But the EotE books describes them as strong. But they can be very strong in their way without needing 5 in Brawn of course, as brawn can represent more than just pure strength!

They do get a bump in brawn. Wookiees are supposed to be super strong to, yet a starter wookiees is only as strong as a storm trooper while the Wookiee gladiator npc has a brawn of 5

They do get a bump in brawn. Wookiees are supposed to be super strong to, yet a starter wookiees is only as strong as a storm trooper while the Wookiee gladiator npc has a brawn of 5

I would say the wookie was stronger than the stormtrooper, even if both have 3. Brawn is more than just pure strength and rp and flavour comes into it too.

Ewok PC: "Can I throw that stormtrooper on the roof?"

GM: "No, you are too small, but the Wookiee might be able too!"

Ewok PC: "Wait, what? That is so speciest, we both have 4 in brawn!"

Wookie PC: "Grrraaaawrrrg"

Ewok PC: "Yea.. Good point!"

Also, brawn 4 is pretty amazingly strong...

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Yea, but while using her whole body weight and a chain from behind, not only with one hand, like the hutt most likely could do to her... Believe it or not, smaller people have killed big and stronger people and animals in real life too..

Let's not forget the potential force enhance on strenght she could have use without knowing it.

Why do people want Hutts to have 5 brawn? Didn't the one Hutt we get in the movies get choked out by a tiny human female?

Yea, but while using her whole body weight and a chain from behind, not only with one hand, like the hutt most likely could do to her... Believe it or not, smaller people have killed big and stronger people and animals in real life too..

Let's not forget the potential force enhance on strenght she could have use without knowing it.

Wow, I really love that point! What a cool notion. I never thought of that:D

Equip your Hutt with the repulsorsled that comes equipped with a planetary-scale Auto-Blaster and watch game balance evaporate!

That's assuming your GM is a complete moron and allows that. If so, he deserves having his campaign shot to bits.

Yeah, but even providing them as a character option

A) Opens the door to these kinds of shenanigans, that needs to be dealt with by

B) The GM rejecting published character creation options, which isn't fun for either party.

Ugh, I provide this entire thread as evidence to my point above.

Also, brawn 4 is pretty amazingly strong...

Yeah, I mean, I think of legendary heroes as MAYBE having a 5 in one trait and a couple 4's in others.