I'm not debating the merits of Hutt characters. My post above was more a statement of anecdotal experience than a judgement about how other players want to play their game.

This whole thread originally appeared to be about how the OP feels/felt that, due to some quirk in the numbers, Hutt characters are implicitly gimped/nerfed or otherwise 'narratively inappropriate' due to the fact that they are unable to advance their Brawn score beyond 4 at character creation, and asking for an opinion.

So I voiced my opinion and provided the experience is based on. My opinion is that the arithmetic anomaly is largely irrelevant due to my observations of player interest.

And Hutt characters aren't new, they were available in WEG's SWRPG and at least one of Wizard's editions. Almost no one was interested in them then, and I'm betting/hoping they're going to be, at best, a curiosity now.

It's worthwhile that they've had a stat block added for fleshing them out and consistency (doubly so that another species wasn't pushed out to make room for them, according to a post above), but this game and many other recent RPGs have gotten it right that everything doesn't need to be a character creation option. Separate rules for NPCs and PCs is perfect, and Hutts are just better as NPCs because of the mechanics [i have to assume are] associated with them.

tl;dr: IMO, the the value of the Hutt stat block is the explicit statement of their racial abilities. The fact they can't get a Brawn > 4 at creation practically immaterial.

PS I added 'implicitly' because the OP never says that directly, but it really seems to be the point of the post.

Equip your Hutt with the repulsorsled that comes equipped with a planetary-scale Auto-Blaster and watch game balance evaporate!

That's assuming your GM is a complete moron and allows that. If so, he deserves having his campaign shot to bits.

Yeah, but even providing them as a character option

A) Opens the door to these kinds of shenanigans, that needs to be dealt with by

B) The GM rejecting published character creation options, which isn't fun for either party.

And Krieger's original point about giving Hutts ranged weapons so they don't have to get close shows another reason that giving a Hutt a Brawn score more than 4 is largely immaterial: They'd make horrible melee combatants because of easy they would be to get away from in most situations. You don't flee at Hutt himself, you leisurely stroll away from him. There's a reason that these fat bastards recruit others to do their dirty work and running for them.

Equip your Hutt with the repulsorsled that comes equipped with a planetary-scale Auto-Blaster and watch game balance evaporate!

That's assuming your GM is a complete moron and allows that. If so, he deserves having his campaign shot to bits.

It takes a complete moron to allow them to purchase a piece of gear specifically made for them?

Equip your Hutt with the repulsorsled that comes equipped with a planetary-scale Auto-Blaster and watch game balance evaporate!

That's assuming your GM is a complete moron and allows that. If so, he deserves having his campaign shot to bits.

It takes a complete moron to allow them to purchase a piece of gear specifically made for them?

The issue is planetary scale being x10. making speeders x5 drops that autoblaster to an off-brand Eweb, which while powerful isnt implausable.

Equip your Hutt with the repulsorsled that comes equipped with a planetary-scale Auto-Blaster and watch game balance evaporate!

That's assuming your GM is a complete moron and allows that. If so, he deserves having his campaign shot to bits.

It takes a complete moron to allow them to purchase a piece of gear specifically made for them?

Letting a player roll around dragging a planetary-scale weapon into every combat encounter, thereby severely disrupting game balance? Yes, that would take a complete moron GM. I'd let them have the repulsorsled but without the gun.

Equip your Hutt with the repulsorsled that comes equipped with a planetary-scale Auto-Blaster and watch game balance evaporate!

That's assuming your GM is a complete moron and allows that. If so, he deserves having his campaign shot to bits.

It takes a complete moron to allow them to purchase a piece of gear specifically made for them?

Hutt shell armor! Why not? Others can have jetpacks or speederbikes! And if the game is about more than fighting, who cares if the characters have cool gear?

Honestly, if I were building a Hutt PC, I'd gear him toward being a "face". Use that starting XP to buy up Cunning and Presence and take a relevant specialization to start. When you've got the cash, buy the repulsorsled without the gun (at a reduced price of course), equip it with the Onboard Amenities Suite and some Smuggling Compartments, maybe a shield generator and bam, you've got a mobile negotiation office.

When asked why you got the model with no gun, answer "Well that's what I've got hench-er-friends for ain't it? Besides, losing the gun gave me room for this holo-disco-ball projector" <switches it on and proceeds to boogie>

Honestly, if I were building a Hutt PC, I'd gear him toward being a "face". Use that starting XP to buy up Cunning and Presence and take a relevant specialization to start.

Funny you should say that.

A local game I know of was/has been looking for a new player with face character (to replace one that recently left), and for the life of me I couldn’t think of anything I could do in that space other than the one I’ve got right now in another game.

I’ve got other old characters I could play, sure. But I couldn’t come up with any new concepts.

At least, not until this thread came around, making me wonder how a Hutt would do in that area.

So, thank you for that idea!

I actually have a Hutt Entrepreneur of that has a melee weapon it's actually quite fun to play because the GM understands that I have a bunch of limitations both mechanical and story wise.Also just an fyi debs have stated that the auto blaster is a personal scale weapon.

Also just an fyi debs have stated that the auto blaster is a personal scale weapon.

We demand proof!

EOTE Errata and common sense.(Meant as friendly in tone.)

I agree it makes sense, I'm asking where the Dev thing comes from. An O66, an interview on a gaming blog, a confession of all errors scribbled on the back of a stall door in the men's room of the Popeye's chicken across the street from the FFG main headquarters?

Honestly, if I were building a Hutt PC, I'd gear him toward being a "face". Use that starting XP to buy up Cunning and Presence and take a relevant specialization to start.

Funny you should say that.

A local game I know of was/has been looking for a new player with face character (to replace one that recently left), and for the life of me I couldn’t think of anything I could do in that space other than the one I’ve got right now in another game.

I’ve got other old characters I could play, sure. But I couldn’t come up with any new concepts.

At least, not until this thread came around, making me wonder how a Hutt would do in that area.

So, thank you for that idea!

No problem. My version would be a Hutt lounge singer or comedian (Performer Spec) who just becomes absurdly well-connected via performing for important people.

I know among my group everyone seemed to unanimously agree that the Hutts seemed like a choice for player characters (at least this early into the game's life span). I think part of that initial response from me was that, well, Hutts are basically the perfect villain characters for an EotE game. As someone who really only knows the setting through the movies, I immediately associate smuggler games with Hutts, and the expanded setting seems to reflect that. They're the Boss of Bosses species for the underworld, a more thematically appropriate threat than even the Empire. I wouldn't allow a Hutt PC in my game simply because I want to keep their politics and society shrouded in mystery and let those details slowly unfold over the course of the game.

That said, not letting them start at Brawn 5 seems perfectly appropriate. In my mind, a 5 characteristic is basically legendary. I look at the core characters from the original trilogy and consider that some of those guys MIGHT have a rare 5 in one characteristic. I made an exception for a very specialized and interesting droid in my game, but I'd normally just flat out bar a starting 5 in game. IMO, that's the province of jedi masters and living legends.

That said, not letting them start at Brawn 5 seems perfectly appropriate. In my mind, a 5 characteristic is basically legendary. I look at the core characters from the original trilogy and consider that some of those guys MIGHT have a rare 5 in one characteristic. I made an exception for a very specialized and interesting droid in my game, but I'd normally just flat out bar a starting 5 in game. IMO, that's the province of jedi masters and living legends.

The max attribute for characters is actually 6, which is what I would think would be considered legendary, but to each their own.

I was thinking about this, and I kinda feel like dropping 50 xp at generation to advance an attribute from 4 to 5 is kind of a waste. You can buy a 'Dedication' talent for 25 xp to advance from 4 to 5 at half the price. You have to buy the talents to get to the dedication talent, but then you get those benefits, too. You can't quite get there for 70 xp, but you can get pretty close.

This is defently why Hutts don't have the ability to start with a brawn of 5

What if when Hutts were in sand they could burrow into it and move around like sand sharks. How did they come to be the race that is feared and in power anyway. They are to big to be much of physical threats. I imagine a clan of Wee-Qay or Tuscan Raiders, or hell. Even Jawas in a pride big enough could just charge them and poke them to death. Of course, Not when they are in the Cantina surrounded by mercs... but how'd they get all that money for those mercs in the first place. You Know?

How did they come to be the race that is feared and in power anyway.

How did humans come to dominate Earth?

What if when Hutts were in sand they could burrow into it and move around like sand sharks. How did they come to be the race that is feared and in power anyway. They are to big to be much of physical threats. I imagine a clan of Wee-Qay or Tuscan Raiders, or hell. Even Jawas in a pride big enough could just charge them and poke them to death. Of course, Not when they are in the Cantina surrounded by mercs... but how'd they get all that money for those mercs in the first place. You Know?

Look at each and every powerful person on Earth... Are they ever really physically intimidating?

Kim Yung Il

Mao

Churchil

George Washington

Kim Yung Un

Khomeini

Angela Merkel

Margaret Thatcher

Queen Elizabeth

Napoleon

None of them...

Others have touched on this, but I'm going to do my best to explain without derailing the thread. Hutts, generally speaking, grow bigger as they age. Though they have a lot of fat, it's not all fat. Another factor of this of course is whether or not the hutt is "in shape." Those repulsorsleds are popular with Hutts, but extended use makes it difficult for them to move under their own power.

In the Han Solo Trilogy, there was a ritual battle between two hutts, where basically they each tried to bash the other's brain in. The larger hutt used one of those sleds, so was very slow, but still very strong, and could kill the younger hutt either with one strike to the head or by crushing him to death. The younger hutt was comparitively faster but still rather strong.

The point I'm trying to make is that a Hutt PC is going to be a *lot* younger than Jabba. Hutts as old as Jabba have the kind of power Jabba had, and don't do things personally--they have goons to do it.

I think we have to see Brawn a bit more abstract than pure strength, size and muscle, otherwise it wouldn`t make sense that human can have 5 at character genereation and Hutts have the same max Brawn at character genereation as Ewoks.

Base chracteristics are indicators, sure, but other than that tey can be interpreted quite broad. High Brawn can be a weak and small guy or gall who gets insane adrenalin kicks, a huge and strong character can have lower Brawn because he or she has a bad back or can`t utilize his or her strength to its full potential. Or you can say a 3 Brawn Wookie is huge and strong, it`s flavour and fluff, and the Brawn 3 is just the number that influence the rolls and mechanics of the game.

The same with other characteristics. You could say a character with high intelligence is very stupid but his grandmother told all kinds of stories infront of the fireplace and shared lots of wisdom while he sat on her lap all day growing up.

A character with low Intelligence can be from a remote system, she is very smart, but ignorant about the ways, customs and cultures of the Galaxy... Or it can all be good luck or bad luck:p

The Characteristics may be indicators and guidelines, but ultimately they are just numbers that affect rolls.

Remember that while Hutts are large the ones with power tend to be the few that focus on intelligence and just rely on their natural physicality. Also that Brawn seems to include the ability to apply the physical capabilities in practical ways.

The Characteristics may be indicators and guidelines, but ultimately they are just numbers that affect rolls.

I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree entirely. If game mechanics don't represent the "reality" of the game world suspension of disbelief disappears. Saying that having a character with 5 intelligence doesn't make your character inherently smarter than a character with 2 intelligence is like saying it's just a guideline that a (unmodified) blaster pistol does less damage than a blaster rifle. There are different ways that a character can be strong, agile, intelligent, or so on, and those are up to the player. You can totally fluff intelligence as somebody who isn't traditionally smart, but has a perfect memory for instance. Agility generally represents physical coordination, but maybe your character has great hand-eye coordination. What you can't do is play someone who constantly puts their foot in their mouth who has 5 presence, or someone with 5 willpower that's a coward. This contradicts the stats, which are part of the game mechanics, which generates the world you play in. If these things don't matter, the rules don't matter. Reductio ad absurdum.

The same with other characteristics. You could say a character with high intelligence is very stupid but his grandmother told all kinds of stories infront of the fireplace and shared lots of wisdom while he sat on her lap all day growing up.

A character with low Intelligence can be from a remote system, she is very smart, but ignorant about the ways, customs and cultures of the Galaxy... Or it can all be good luck or bad luck:p

The Characteristics may be indicators and guidelines, but ultimately they are just numbers that affect rolls.

On the one hand, Intelligence most definitely is not the same as Wisdom, and most games usually separate the two attributes.

OTOH, Wisdom passed down from the ages will only take you so far in the world, at which point you are likely to be well and truely screwed.

I would also observe that Intelligence most definitely is not the same as Creativity, but most games don’t separate those two attributes.

At some point, you’ve got to take what you’ve got and make some sense of it. When it comes to attributes as recorded in this system, I would say that a single point in an attribute would be a noticeable difference in the average performance of one individual versus another in given types of situations. OTOH, if someone with a high attribute is having a bad day and someone with a lower attribute is having a good day, then the latter could potentially beat the former and maybe do so with ease.

Same with skills. A higher number is noticeably more skilled, but that is not a guarantee of more success. It’s just a recognition of the difference in probabilities.

Either way, ultimately the dice will tell.

I played a Hutt entrepreneur in a short lived online campaign and really enjoyed it (the character that is, online play just wasn't my thing...) I hardly had any really disadvantage for being as big as I was and if it did come up, we roleplayed our way through it. Sure it takes a capable GM to run it but then again so do many things...