Heya folks,

SO in our current game i have a character who is a FSExile. They have a Force rating of 1 but have accumulated enough XP to purchase a spec from FnD when it drops.

SO my question is, the Force rating from FnD. Is that granted if you take a Carrer? or Spec? The way i read it you dont get the FR1 unless you chose a career and thats not what he is doing, hes taking a spec.

The way i see it right now is the Character will still be Rating of 1, Will be able to get the Talent from the FSExile tree to go to Rank 2, and then in the future aquire the talent from the FnD Spec for another Rank making that Rank 3, correct??

Yes. Once you have a Force Rating of 1, the only way to increase it is through the Force Rating talent.

In F&D, careers give you FR of 1, not specs (another thing to note is that you gain FR 1 , you do not gain +1FR). So you are correct: the only way to increase your FR is by taking the Force Rating talent.

-EF

awesome!

Some Specs give 2 force rating so its possible to get to force rating 3 if they pick up the right spec.

Some Specs give 2 force rating so its possible to get to force rating 3 if they pick up the right spec.

Some specs have two Force Rating talents , yes. But no F&D spec gives you a Froce Rating. Slightly different, but very important.

-EF

Just curious as I know some things have maximum ranks / ratings. Is there a maximum force rating?

I am Jon Snow in this regard... I know nothing... and I'm also wondering how many packs of dice I will have to buy (after all of the beginner boxes) to have enough...

I know, I know, dice app... and don't get me wrong, I love the app... it works great, but there is something satisfying about shaking them in dramatic situations and letting them fall so everyone can rejoice or weep all at the same time!

No cap to Force Rating other than having the experience to buy specializations and talents to boost it.

If you have 3 dice packs (one for each basic set) you are good to go. More is nice but at least 2 should be fine.

Right now, the maximum Force Ratin is 18, by my count. That's 1 base FR for either FSEx/Em or a F&D career, and then taking all the FR talents out there. Asthe career books for F&D come out that number will grow.

Even though there is no listed max, attaining anything higher than 5 or so is going to be prohibitively expensive, XP-wise. It's 135XP to get the two FR talents in Consular/Sage, and 140XP to get both FR talents in Mystic/Seer. Throw in the 30XP to take an out-of-career spec, and it's a whopping 305XP for a FR 5!

And that is ignoring Force powers to use your FR, and skills, Dedication, etc. that's 305 for just the FR. skills, Dedication, Force powers, etc can easily push that above 400 or even 500XP.

-EF

Anyways, I'd recommend FSEs get their Force Rating boost in the career they have before trying to add a new one.

Right now, the maximum Force Ratin is 18, by my count. That's 1 base FR for either FSEx/Em or a F&D career, and then taking all the FR talents out there. Asthe career books for F&D come out that number will grow.

Even though there is no listed max, attaining anything higher than 5 or so is going to be prohibitively expensive, XP-wise. It's 135XP to get the two FR talents in Consular/Sage, and 140XP to get both FR talents in Mystic/Seer. Throw in the 30XP to take an out-of-career spec, and it's a whopping 305XP for a FR 5!

And that is ignoring Force powers to use your FR, and skills, Dedication, etc. that's 305 for just the FR. skills, Dedication, Force powers, etc can easily push that above 400 or even 500XP.

-EF

Yikes! That is crazy land! Not that it would happen that way, but that is definitely concerning. Our last campaign ran for 9 years playing nearly every weekend. Giving out even 10 exp a week could get someone all of this in less than a year! Not that I have any min/max people in the group... we know the value of being rounded. But to not have limits where everything else is so limited is going to make Jedi the defacto place to go for power. Are you sure there aren't any limits to force rating? And am I overlooking something, is anything else out there is wide-open?!? If this is the case, I will definitely have to scale back Experience points to control power creep.

I don't think you have to scale back experience to control power creep - unless power creep actually happens. Don't worry about it until then

If your players would enjoy more XP per session, why not just do that?

Also, you can always adjust encounters to compensate.

Offering up an anecdotal example: In a campaign I am playing, I've earned ~250 XP and have FR3 only because of a "trinket" that gives me +1FR. That is because, like most players, I wanted certain talents, skills, force powers... If you min/max and just shoot for FR, it will be useless in practical play. Even with FR3, I am struggling to use Force Move reliably. I had another session where I gained 8 conflict by flipping pips, and rolled a 1 on the morality roll

Even at this point, minion groups paired with appropriately scaled rivals/nemesis are problematic. We nearly party wiped during the last encounter (3x minions + 1 nemesis + 1 rival VS. 3 PCs).

Jedi who rely on the force are dramaticly underpowered when compared to other characters due to the Conflict mechanic. You are far better off learning how to use a lightsaber then force powers first. This is largely due to the fact that dark side pips have a better statistical chance of appearing then light side points.

It's not them wanting more Experience. I'm concerned about it over time. I prefer slow and steady so we focus more on character than on powers. That is why I'm concerned. Not because someone wants too much too soon. We aren't a typical group, so our campaigns become very long and we become very character-centric. The shortest one we have had that I remember was nearly 4 years. Averaging 40 sessions or more per year can add up to a lot of experience. Just concerned for the long haul.

Jeez, I'd love to have that staying power. My tastes change on a whim, so these days I struggle to keep ideas coming to run any game for more than 10 sessions I would LOVE to have the ability to run a campaign that went on for 9 years! (or even just play in one! )

Jedi who rely on the force are dramaticly underpowered when compared to other characters due to the Conflict mechanic. You are far better off learning how to use a lightsaber then force powers first. This is largely due to the fact that dark side pips have a better statistical chance of appearing then light side points.

This is untrue. You can gain conflict swinging a lightsaber just as easily as using Force powers. And Force using characters with access to Force powers can be just as able as other characters.

Jeez, I'd love to have that staying power. My tastes change on a whim, so these days I struggle to keep ideas coming to run any game for more than 10 sessions I would LOVE to have the ability to run a campaign that went on for 9 years! (or even just play in one! )

It is awesome! You really know what motivates your character and you definitely have a past... the encounters got to be harder to manage, but that was d10 Mage and we had amazing powers. I like the roleplaying aspect of this system better, including the dice. I also like it that the same foes can still be dangerous later on, as well they should be. I just want it to have the same kind of staying power once we get past the first couple of years. Thankfully, I have time to develop a lot, because we've only just started running it. I have been prepping it out. I'm also surprised at how fast the pace can move in this game as well. Might be taking on a full time job to keep up a weekly game!!!

Right now, the maximum Force Ratin is 18, by my count. That's 1 base FR for either FSEx/Em or a F&D career, and then taking all the FR talents out there. Asthe career books for F&D come out that number will grow.

Even though there is no listed max, attaining anything higher than 5 or so is going to be prohibitively expensive, XP-wise. It's 135XP to get the two FR talents in Consular/Sage, and 140XP to get both FR talents in Mystic/Seer. Throw in the 30XP to take an out-of-career spec, and it's a whopping 305XP for a FR 5!

And that is ignoring Force powers to use your FR, and skills, Dedication, etc. that's 305 for just the FR. skills, Dedication, Force powers, etc can easily push that above 400 or even 500XP.

-EF

Yikes! That is crazy land! Not that it would happen that way, but that is definitely concerning. Our last campaign ran for 9 years playing nearly every weekend. Giving out even 10 exp a week could get someone all of this in less than a year! Not that I have any min/max people in the group... we know the value of being rounded. But to not have limits where everything else is so limited is going to make Jedi the defacto place to go for power. Are you sure there aren't any limits to force rating? And am I overlooking something, is anything else out there is wide-open?!? If this is the case, I will definitely have to scale back Experience points to control power creep.

Like I said in the quoted post, you have the FR, but no skill to use it, nor any powers to make use of it. Stop thinking of the Force user in a vacuum: what can e rest of the party do with that many XP? A heavy with enough ranks in barrage and jury-rig to crit on 1 advantage and activate auto-fire with another. A diplomat who can con a Hutt into a lifetime supply of drool buckets. A pilot who can fly circles around and destroy an ISD.

Yes, a 500XP Force user can be scary-powerful, but so can any other character with that kind of XP! As dfn said, don't worry about it until you get there. Most of the time it's just the GM worrying about nothing. I mean, players will spend XP on what the GM might consider silly things just so the PC can be more well-rounded. I've yet to meet a player in a non-level-based game who specializes to such a degree to cause this kind of worry.

-EF

Jedi who rely on the force are dramaticly underpowered when compared to other characters due to the Conflict mechanic. You are far better off learning how to use a lightsaber then force powers first. This is largely due to the fact that dark side pips have a better statistical chance of appearing then light side points.

This is untrue. You can gain conflict swinging a lightsaber just as easily as using Force powers. And Force using characters with access to Force powers can be just as able as other characters.

Add in the fact that using the Force does not begin and end around the Force powers. The majority of the Force specialization talents are Force related in nature.

Jedi who rely on the force are dramaticly underpowered when compared to other characters due to the Conflict mechanic. You are far better off learning how to use a lightsaber then force powers first. This is largely due to the fact that dark side pips have a better statistical chance of appearing then light side points.

This is untrue. You can gain conflict swinging a lightsaber just as easily as using Force powers. And Force using characters with access to Force powers can be just as able as other characters.

I roll to activate my Move what I got dark side force pips.

Hmm do I fail and stand around doing nothing this round or do I take conflict.

Or

I move up and start swinging my lightsaber earning zero conflict with significantly less chance to fail.

You only gain conflict using a lightsaber when you choose to.

It does flicker out and force you to use conflict for a possiblity of working..

Force powers used against targets typically require two rolls one which is based entirely on spending a massive amount of xp to up your force rating so you don't have a 60% chance of gaining darkside pips instead of lightside.

So for move to work as a viable attack you have to

1. Buy up your force rating 60+ xp per rating

2. Buy up your discipline and will

3. Buy up talents

To use a lightsaber reasonably well you need to:

1. Buy up the skill.

2. Buy up a couple talents.

3. Mod out the lightsaber

Using a lightsaber in combat is easier, faster works most of the time once you get the skill up to a certain point and never requires conflict for the possibility of activating it.

For every force power tree you pick up another player can pretty much buy up another talent tree.

Non Force Users will always be better then equivalent force power using characters.

Jedi who rely on the force are dramaticly underpowered when compared to other characters due to the Conflict mechanic. You are far better off learning how to use a lightsaber then force powers first. This is largely due to the fact that dark side pips have a better statistical chance of appearing then light side points.

This is untrue. You can gain conflict swinging a lightsaber just as easily as using Force powers. And Force using characters with access to Force powers can be just as able as other characters.

I roll to activate my Move what I got dark side force pips.

Hmm do I fail and stand around doing nothing this round or do I take conflict.

Or

I move up and start swinging my lightsaber earning zero conflict with significantly less chance to fail.

You only gain conflict using a lightsaber when you choose to.

It does flicker out and force you to use conflict for a possiblity of working..

Force powers used against targets typically require two rolls one which is based entirely on spending a massive amount of xp to up your force rating so you don't have a 60% chance of gaining darkside pips instead of lightside.

So for move to work as a viable attack you have to

1. Buy up your force rating 60+ xp per rating

2. Buy up your discipline and will

3. Buy up talents

To use a lightsaber reasonably well you need to:

1. Buy up the skill.

2. Buy up a couple talents.

3. Mod out the lightsaber

Using a lightsaber in combat is easier, faster works most of the time once you get the skill up to a certain point and never requires conflict for the possibility of activating it.

For every force power tree you pick up another player can pretty much buy up another talent tree.

Non Force Users will always be better then equivalent force power using characters.

It's not about doing better. It's about playing out a story and having fun. And taking conflict doesn't mean turning to the dark.

Jeez, I'd love to have that staying power. My tastes change on a whim, so these days I struggle to keep ideas coming to run any game for more than 10 sessions I would LOVE to have the ability to run a campaign that went on for 9 years! (or even just play in one! )

Long term games tend to be the norm at my table. Our Padawan game started in 2000, after we finally had enough information to properly play in the Old Republic era and ran until 2005-ish when we wrapped things up as RotS dropped. Our very first game started when WEG launched back in 1989 (87?) and ran for 3 or 4 years, and then we phased out those characters and did a Next Generation running all the way up to the coming of Thrawn.

The shortest game I've done was two years in college (with a 3 month break in the middle for summer). And even then, that was a spin-off of my Next Gen game (with all new players).

And the Padawan game? We're kicking around a sequel campaign, picking up where they left off at, but with all new characters as students (and etc) of the old ones.

Sounds like I need to get in on Desslok's game.

As do I.

I agree, that mostly this is me being a GM (without the rulebook) being concerned about what Force will do to an Edge campaign. I know what we have done in the past with the Mage system when you could get into crazy high amounts of powers. Not worried about the story aspect. There is more than enough to pull from and adapt over. Not even worried about someone having fun with the Force and starting to go for higher Force Rating and getting to the bottom of Talent trees. That will happen. Mostly I'm concerned about the magnitude of things as we get past FR 5 or so. At that point a blaster is still as good in the hands of someone that is advancing skills like the Jedi (which will happen). What happens at FR 10? Will the person with a blaster still be able to compete?

No real reason to continue this, mostly I'm thinking out loud. In 2020, I'll be happy to come back and post how things are going, if I can find this old thread...