For some reason, I thought the YV-666 had a 180 degree primary arc, not a normal 90 degree (-ish) primary arc with 2 45 degree secondary arcs...

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I've played against a proxied HT before. When you get behind one it's like when you're behind a Lambda, but you have to be a little more careful. The thing is fine.

I'm more concerned that wave 7 will add nothing to the meta at all besides for TIE MK II, just like how wave 6 added little besides for dual IG's. All I imagine when I see the HT is a turret 4 straighting past it and the HT not having a chance.

Depending on what Maneuvering Fins do, situation might not be that bad.

I am a bit pissed though that they made the Nashtan Pup, which was a very interesting mechanic useless for all except Razzi.

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covered already, but "a 180-degree turret" is an oxymoron same as "jumbo shrimp" or "skinny han"

anyway, our pilot of evally aligned Morality (seriously, who comes up with these ******* names? At this rate, the next scum ship is going to have an ace going by "Nasty Notnice") is seems disgusting. Lack of EPT hurts only a little (imagine this guy running around with SoT and tech, not to mention K4 + int agent; insanity) but really K4 makes up for missing predator.

Slap on an HLC (4-dice, all the time), K4, Int Agent, and EU and get him ready for the prime time.

problem is he costs as much as a tooled out Aggressor. Not problem is Aggressors don't have 180 degree cannons, K4, or Int Agent.

You could fly him with Aggressors (he's even the right PS!) but then you'd catch yourself trying to give him IG-88's ability, and you'll be sad

Wait. A 180-degree turret mount? Paging ParaGoombaSlayer! Please come want us how our game is about to be ruined before we all make foolish purchases.

I've played against a proxied HT before. When you get behind one it's like when you're behind a Lambda, but you have to be a little more careful. The thing is fine.

I'm more concerned that wave 7 will add nothing to the meta at all besides for TIE MK II, just like how wave 6 added little besides for dual IG's. All I imagine when I see the HT is a turret 4 straighting past it and the HT not having a chance.

Depending on what Maneuvering Fins do, situation might not be that bad.

I am a bit pissed though that they made the Nashtan Pup, which was a very interesting mechanic useless for all except Razzi.

It's 2 health 2 shield and 2-3 red dice when you would have had none for 6 points. Razzi might be the best after death but she might get there first too.

It also means you're playing a 94 (or less) point squad until the big ship dies, in exchange for a not very meaningful effect afterward. A single z-95 doesn't make any kind of big impact late in the game. You might strip a couple hull points of a fattie if you're lucky before it dies, but you've got no chance of touching an ace in a small ship.

I reeeeeeeeeally like that Xizor list. On the long-delayed Scum & Villainy podcast, they were talking about having to get people to shoot at the YV-666 first in order to make Hound's Tooth a useful upgrade, which is exactly what that list does. The only tricky part is trying to manuever His Purple Highness in concert with a large-based ship. Also, if I'm going to run the Prince at PS9, I really want a point or two for the initiative bid vs. Soontir.

Pup might deploy using any maneuver on its dial, perhaps. Might even get an action. I guess we will see soon

My guess would be non-red maneuver

Also might deploy stressed. I know if I was trying to fly a little ship out of an exploding bigger ship, I'd be stressed.

PUNCH IT!!!

:lol:

I reeeeeeeeeally like that Xizor list. On the long-delayed Scum & Villainy podcast, they were talking about having to get people to shoot at the YV-666 first in order to make Hound's Tooth a useful upgrade, which is exactly what that list does. The only tricky part is trying to manuever His Purple Highness in concert with a large-based ship. Also, if I'm going to run the Prince at PS9, I really want a point or two for the initiative bid vs. Soontir.

I don't like that Xizor list because it reminds me that VI/FCS/THruster Xizor and two K4 Slavers is 101 points

Wait. A 180-degree turret mount? Paging ParaGoombaSlayer! Please come want us how our game is about to be ruined before we all make foolish purchases.

I've played against a proxied HT before. When you get behind one it's like when you're behind a Lambda, but you have to be a little more careful. The thing is fine.

I'm more concerned that wave 7 will add nothing to the meta at all besides for TIE MK II, just like how wave 6 added little besides for dual IG's. All I imagine when I see the HT is a turret 4 straighting past it and the HT not having a chance.

At least the Tie Advance buff will shake things up. Its essentially going to be part of wave 7.

I just hope fortressing builds don't start becoming a thing.

I don't see why everyone hates Fortresses. Firstly, I've yet to run across one and I doubt most who hate the concept have either. Secondly, if you hate fortresses but don't hate Turretwing you're inconsistent.

I've played against one before. Easily the dumbest game of X-wing I've ever played. It was a while ago, but I believe he had Lando and Chewy with Predator both facing each other in a corner doing 1 forwards. I don't remember the upgrades he had.

I think I was running a Firespray and a miniswarm, but I can't remember fully. Anyway, he sat there for 20 minutes while I finally said screw it and rushed in at him. Luckily my dice were hot and I killed Chewy fairly quickly. Then it was a chase to kill Lando off. Luckily, the position that he was in I was able to block Lando for a few turns and whittle him down. But I remember barely pulling it out. I think my FS had maybe 1 or 2 hull while all my Ties had been exploded.

I'm more concerned that wave 7 will add nothing to the meta at all besides for TIE MK II, just like how wave 6 added little besides for dual IG's. All I imagine when I see the HT is a turret 4 straighting past it and the HT not having a chance.

Umm, Scum added a lot. If you are paying attention, not to just what is winning.

Yeah, I don't get this at all. Are you saying that besides the MK II engine upgrade, there is nothing added to the existing meta of the ships?

What about all the new bombs? What about Extra Munitions? You don't think that's going to make an impact in the meta? If not, then you will be surprised.

We don't even know what Adv. Homing Missile does yet. I see them for Rhymer all day long. Two of those and Extra Munitions is all you will need to make him effective as it will give him 4 missiles. Yes, we don't know what it does yet, but we will soon.

Twin Laser Cannons will be fantastic for Y-wings and especially the HWK-290. I can see Horton w/ Stressbot firing these things to great effect. Kavil can even do well on the edges with this. He will be able to hit Stealth Soontir with two 4 dice attacks per round.

Glitterstim will have a bigger impact than MK II engines.

Personally, I see this wave being a big hit to the Fat Turrets. All your eggs in one basket will be tougher to defend with the new mines and ordnance.

Personally, I don't see EM itself adding much in the way of ordnance

Bombs, though, are going to most likely be revolutionary (and here is where EM helps greatly). Deathrain and the generic K-wing (SLAM and A-SLAM) are, imo, going to fart conner nets into the top tier of control tech.

See, I really don't understand why people find Soontir scary (dude's got 3 health, action dependency up the ass, and hits as hard as a rookie pilot) but when Conner Nets hit the table they will have no excuse for thinking he'd ever dominate the meta by himself.

Hell, Dash is going to despise nets. No multi-action shenanigans, no firing once he's parked on an asteroid (can't even b-roll off it), and the ion move lets you snuggle up nice and cosy to his blindspot.

Still nothing really against fat PWTs specifically, apart from the Advances from the Raider (not sure if that falls into Wave 7) and Redline with Cluster Missiles. Cluster Mines were promising, but 3/8 chance of damage per die is green dice odds.

Conners help a lot against PWTs (thank god for immidiate ionization), but they care the least about the guaranteed damage + action denial. Relative to Soontir, who's simply ****** if he runs into a net, they're not terribly affected but they will be set up for some devastating rounds of fire.

Now that's how you do a non-elite pilot.

A small pity: It still means that three of the four pilots for the ship have effectively no special ability once they load into the Nashtah Pup. (Bossk's is going to be as useful on a 2ATT ship with no EPT as, well, Maarek Stele before ATC; it might as well not exist.) Here's hoping they let it keep the pilots EPT in an errata in a wave or two, too.

Three? Only two I'd say; Latts can still get a target lock in a Z-95, and spend it whenever. Not quite as effective as with a Weapons Engineer but hey, she'd be dead otherwise.

Now that's how you do a non-elite pilot.

A small pity: It still means that three of the four pilots for the ship have effectively no special ability once they load into the Nashtah Pup. (Bossk's is going to be as useful on a 2ATT ship with no EPT as, well, Maarek Stele before ATC; it might as well not exist.) Here's hoping they let it keep the pilots EPT in an errata in a wave or two, too.

Three? Only two I'd say; Latts can still get a target lock in a Z-95, and spend it whenever. Not quite as effective as with a Weapons Engineer but hey, she'd be dead otherwise.

I think he's counting the generic, which has no ability to start with. He is mostly right about Bossk though, unless there is some way to get an EPT on the Pup, his ability will be near worthless, except occasional lucky hits.

Now that's how you do a non-elite pilot.

A small pity: It still means that three of the four pilots for the ship have effectively no special ability once they load into the Nashtah Pup. (Bossk's is going to be as useful on a 2ATT ship with no EPT as, well, Maarek Stele before ATC; it might as well not exist.) Here's hoping they let it keep the pilots EPT in an errata in a wave or two, too.

Three? Only two I'd say; Latts can still get a target lock in a Z-95, and spend it whenever. Not quite as effective as with a Weapons Engineer but hey, she'd be dead otherwise.

I think he's counting the generic, which has no ability to start with. He is mostly right about Bossk though, unless there is some way to get an EPT on the Pup, his ability will be near worthless, except occasional lucky hits.

You'd think logically your EPT would carry over since that ability is dependent on the pilot and not the ship. Pilot is still alive, his EPT should stick with him, no?

He's only elite when he flies a bathtub, not a starfighter.

Now that's how you do a non-elite pilot.

A small pity: It still means that three of the four pilots for the ship have effectively no special ability once they load into the Nashtah Pup. (Bossk's is going to be as useful on a 2ATT ship with no EPT as, well, Maarek Stele before ATC; it might as well not exist.) Here's hoping they let it keep the pilots EPT in an errata in a wave or two, too.

Three? Only two I'd say; Latts can still get a target lock in a Z-95, and spend it whenever. Not quite as effective as with a Weapons Engineer but hey, she'd be dead otherwise.

I think he's counting the generic, which has no ability to start with. He is mostly right about Bossk though, unless there is some way to get an EPT on the Pup, his ability will be near worthless, except occasional lucky hits.

Ah, I misread him, thought he meant Latts was useless, guess I should skim less. I'd say Bossk's still pretty useful, a pilot skill 7 Z-95 with a chance to do increased damage is better than a PS1 Z-95 with nothing.

He's only elite when he flies a bathtub, not a starfighter.

Case Closed.

Wait. A 180-degree turret mount? Paging ParaGoombaSlayer! Please come want us how our game is about to be ruined before we all make foolish purchases.

I've played against a proxied HT before. When you get behind one it's like when you're behind a Lambda, but you have to be a little more careful. The thing is fine.

I'm more concerned that wave 7 will add nothing to the meta at all besides for TIE MK II, just like how wave 6 added little besides for dual IG's. All I imagine when I see the HT is a turret 4 straighting past it and the HT not having a chance.

At least the Tie Advance buff will shake things up. Its essentially going to be part of wave 7.

I just hope fortressing builds don't start becoming a thing.

I don't see why everyone hates Fortresses. Firstly, I've yet to run across one and I doubt most who hate the concept have either. Secondly, if you hate fortresses but don't hate Turretwing you're inconsistent.

First yay me for my consistency!

Fortressing is against the spirit of the game it essentially abuses game mechanics to confer an advantage which while not cheating is certainly close enough for most people.

Let me tell you a tale of heroclix, it twas the world championship the two best players faced each other the winner had a green lantern force and a plan he dashed out one model killed a pog (token with one hit point) then he sat in a corner behind shields until time ran out.

Now does that sound like a fun compelling match? He killed a token then fortressed in a corner, I don't think it's unreasonable to want to avoid that kind of situation especially at a world championship game that should be showing off the skills of the finalists.

And the devs said if fortresses became common it'd get banned very quickly so clearly players and company are in agreement for the most part.

Personally, I don't see EM itself adding much in the way of ordnance

Bombs, though, are going to most likely be revolutionary (and here is where EM helps greatly). Deathrain and the generic K-wing (SLAM and A-SLAM) are, imo, going to fart conner nets into the top tier of control tech.

See, I really don't understand why people find Soontir scary (dude's got 3 health, action dependency up the ass, and hits as hard as a rookie pilot) but when Conner Nets hit the table they will have no excuse for thinking he'd ever dominate the meta by himself.

Extra Munitions will really only be useful for ships that have more ordnance slots than 1 Torpedo. So, that does limit them to Firespray, Y-wing, Tie Bomber, and the Wave 7 stuff. Still, if you think it's not going to effect anything, then I think you are wrong. For one, Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles are a lot cheaper. They don't need anything extra to get action economy as you get to keep the TL. Even a low PS pilot has ways of getting the TL and those that say low PS can't ever get TL's just haven't really tried. So, I see that as a thing. Horton will see time on the table now with Torpedoes as they are a lot more affordable. He doesn't even need action economy as much as he re-rolls blanks and can turn 1 eyeball into a hit. Not perfect, but worthwhile.

Yes, Bombs will be.....da bomb. I mean, Bombs will be used by more players and have a greater impact on the game than they have in the past. I agree. Still, Ordnance is something that fires at the enemy in your sights as opposed to something that they has to be placed in a particular spot. They are both good.

As for Soontir, it's not that he's scary. It's that he's something you will have to face and deal with. He's PS 9 and a great arc dodger. Give him Stealth and he's rolling 4 evade dice with a built in Focus token. He could have an Evade that turn, too. So, Soontir is challenging to get in your firing arc and has a great chance to evade your damage. He's a legitimate threat that you have to be able to take out. A HoundsTooth w/ 180 degree HLC will go far in helping out with that. As for getting behind the HT, you can always give it Engine Upgrade. It helps make it hard to stay behind.

Wait. A 180-degree turret mount? Paging ParaGoombaSlayer! Please come want us how our game is about to be ruined before we all make foolish purchases.

I've played against a proxied HT before. When you get behind one it's like when you're behind a Lambda, but you have to be a little more careful. The thing is fine.

I'm more concerned that wave 7 will add nothing to the meta at all besides for TIE MK II, just like how wave 6 added little besides for dual IG's. All I imagine when I see the HT is a turret 4 straighting past it and the HT not having a chance.

At least the Tie Advance buff will shake things up. Its essentially going to be part of wave 7.

I just hope fortressing builds don't start becoming a thing.

I don't see why everyone hates Fortresses. Firstly, I've yet to run across one and I doubt most who hate the concept have either. Secondly, if you hate fortresses but don't hate Turretwing you're inconsistent.

First yay me for my consistency!

Fortressing is against the spirit of the game it essentially abuses game mechanics to confer an advantage which while not cheating is certainly close enough for most people.

Let me tell you a tale of heroclix, it twas the world championship the two best players faced each other the winner had a green lantern force and a plan he dashed out one model killed a pog (token with one hit point) then he sat in a corner behind shields until time ran out.

Now does that sound like a fun compelling match? He killed a token then fortressed in a corner, I don't think it's unreasonable to want to avoid that kind of situation especially at a world championship game that should be showing off the skills of the finalists.

And the devs said if fortresses became common it'd get banned very quickly so clearly players and company are in agreement for the most part.

And the devs said if fortresses became common it'd get banned very quickly so clearly players and company are in agreement for the most part.

Unless you are referring to something other than the interview with Alex Davy that I'm thinking about, that's not quite what he said.

In this interview Alex says that if fortressing becomes a problem and is winning a lot of games that they'll discuss what can be done.

Let me tell you a tale of heroclix, it twas the world championship the two best players faced each other the winner had a green lantern force and a plan he dashed out one model killed a pog (token with one hit point) then he sat in a corner behind shields until time ran out.

Now does that sound like a fun compelling match? He killed a token then fortressed in a corner, I don't think it's unreasonable to want to avoid that kind of situation especially at a world championship game that should be showing off the skills of the finalists.

Could've been worse. I heard that this year's world championship game was over in under 10 minutes.

Personally, I don't see EM itself adding much in the way of ordnance

Bombs, though, are going to most likely be revolutionary (and here is where EM helps greatly). Deathrain and the generic K-wing (SLAM and A-SLAM) are, imo, going to fart conner nets into the top tier of control tech.

See, I really don't understand why people find Soontir scary (dude's got 3 health, action dependency up the ass, and hits as hard as a rookie pilot) but when Conner Nets hit the table they will have no excuse for thinking he'd ever dominate the meta by himself.

Extra Munitions will really only be useful for ships that have more ordnance slots than 1 Torpedo. So, that does limit them to Firespray, Y-wing, Tie Bomber, and the Wave 7 stuff. Still, if you think it's not going to effect anything, then I think you are wrong. For one, Tie Bombers with Homing Missiles are a lot cheaper. They don't need anything extra to get action economy as you get to keep the TL. Even a low PS pilot has ways of getting the TL and those that say low PS can't ever get TL's just haven't really tried. So, I see that as a thing. Horton will see time on the table now with Torpedoes as they are a lot more affordable. He doesn't even need action economy as much as he re-rolls blanks and can turn 1 eyeball into a hit. Not perfect, but worthwhile.

Yes, Bombs will be.....da bomb. I mean, Bombs will be used by more players and have a greater impact on the game than they have in the past. I agree. Still, Ordnance is something that fires at the enemy in your sights as opposed to something that they has to be placed in a particular spot. They are both good.

As for Soontir, it's not that he's scary. It's that he's something you will have to face and deal with. He's PS 9 and a great arc dodger. Give him Stealth and he's rolling 4 evade dice with a built in Focus token. He could have an Evade that turn, too. So, Soontir is challenging to get in your firing arc and has a great chance to evade your damage. He's a legitimate threat that you have to be able to take out. A HoundsTooth w/ 180 degree HLC will go far in helping out with that. As for getting behind the HT, you can always give it Engine Upgrade. It helps make it hard to stay behind.

the problem with EM and ordnance is that EM only solves one of its problems (one-shot) and then only barely

Ordnance is still, on the whole, too stiff (TL requirement), too dicey (TL spending), and overall just not worth the purchase price. What it needs now, in addition to EM, are pilots that can make it not suck so much.

The Raider is giving us AC Advances to make CM reliable, so that's nice

Glitterstime is giving us 4-dice, nearly fully modified, 4-dice N'dru Cluster Missiles

Wave 7 itself is just giving us Redline (king of the normally sh*tty proton/plasma torps; duke of Cluster Missiles) and potentially Miranda (can't set up the target-lock and focus on the same turn, which sucks, but...5 dice homing missiles, son!)

so, a fair bit of Cluster Missile love, one avenue for proton/plasmas and one avenue for Homing missiles (maybe).

the only ordnance that were really worth using before are

1. pocket rockets (but not on ships that can EM it)

2. flechette torps (same cost as EM)

3. potentially IPM (could be fun; rangewise easier to apply than Conners even though it's not nearly as awesome)

there are Advance Homing Missiles (which we know jack **** about, apart from range), so there's some potential there

as for Soonts, eh. Having played against him near constantly (stupid RAC lists), I can say he's struck me as less of a threat than literally every other typical meta option out there.

Moralo Eval (lol) is just another arm of the ways to counter him (not including just blocking or obstacles) assuming Connerrain^tm doesn't drag him kicking and screaming out of the meta

I don't see how you can't see that Plasma Torpedoes are an amazing upgrade over the Proton Torpedoes. Cheaper (which is the key). And a good chance to do extra damage against some very annoying things that are beefy.

the problem with EM and ordnance is that EM only solves one of its problems (one-shot) and then only barely

Ordnance is still, on the whole, too stiff (TL requirement), too dicey (TL spending), and overall just not worth the purchase price. What it needs now, in addition to EM, are pilots that can make it not suck so much.

Yes, Extra Munitions doesn't fix every problem with ordnance. It does help it, though, and if you think it won't have an impact in the meta, then you are wrong. There are lots of combos you can do for every faction that will give you the edge when firing ordnance and action economy. We have gone over them before. There will be specific pilots and upgrades that will make it worth while. There are more options for ordnance with Wave 7 than ever before. When you look at the meta of a lot of fat turret lists, then ordnance is a definite counter to that, especially if you work in those combos.

Even without the special combos, ordnance overall has gotten better. Simple things like Homing Missiles are a lot more affordable and usable. Are they ideal without Focus and TL? No, but the free TL and no Evade helps it quite a bit. EM makes the average price 3.5, which is well worth it.

I don't see how you can't see that Plasma Torpedoes are an amazing upgrade over the Proton Torpedoes. Cheaper (which is the key). And a good chance to do extra damage against some very annoying things that are beefy.

It seems like Plasma Torpedoes are a little hyped up. If you are firing them with TL+Focus against a ship with a lot of shields they are better than Protons. If you are firing them without a focus at a ship with no or few shields they'll be worse. If Plasma Torpedoes removed a shield token before damage was applied I think they'd be worth the hype. Proton Torpedoes fired by Horton or a pilot with Predator are fairly reliable.

Plasma Torpedoes have diminishing returns for taking them on multiple ships.