If this were a larger website and fanbase I would tell myself life's too short to acknowledge squabbles like these, but seriously - both of you, get a grip on yourselves. I have no idea what you think you're going to achieve with your insults and inferences. A healthy community revolves around the ability to keep a civilized tone even if you feel provoked.

For the record, I am excited about Ettenmoors as I haven't proxied None Return and I'm curious about the new Tactics hero. Also, my 4-player group may eventually use easy mode to get through AtS and Ringmaker, as we live far apart and only play once every other month on average. Everyone is excited about the Angmar scenarios, but, when some don't have time to keep up with the cycles, the road to the newest pack becomes pretty long.

I fully agree with Olorin.

Re Nightmare decks: I personally find it great that the designers in general try not only to increase the difficulty of a quest but also to expand the theme and narrative as well as to address potential loopholes and other problems that players identify over time. I doubt that this would be possible to the same extent if Nightmare decks were released at the same time as the quests themselves.

Which makes me wonder how exactly LotR LCG quests are tested... No, I'm really curious. Do they have a special depratment for that? Or they simply play a lot themselves? Or something else?

Probably a combination of all of the above. Just read the rule sheets and you will find the list of playtesters for each box.

Edit: Regarding players' feedback, a particular good example in my opinion is Heirs of Numenor, where they specifically addressed how (most) people handled Alcaron's scroll and Celador. This is not a random guess from my side but something that got explicitly mentioned in the release article:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/10/31/the-border-war-grows-darker/

This is very unique game… from begin ffg egen planed some tournaments but then they decide to abandon that udea.

Then difficulty number of the quest no make sense as well…

Then Nmode was invented. I like nmode. To be honest if there is no Nmode I already stop to play this game long time ago….

Anyway you can image I buy new lotr product and put in on shelf to wait for Nmode.

I still not even play Road Darkens and Treason of Saruman. Waiting for Nightmare cards

So I really like this game to have a patient like that.

Which makes me wonder how exactly LotR LCG quests are tested... No, I'm really curious. Do they have a special depratment for that? Or they simply play a lot themselves? Or something else?

I'm sure the designers play it a bunch, but I think they also have a team of playtesters to at least test the near-final version. It may be a combination of FFG employees and volunteer experienced players from the public.

Just played the quest just now. It was great. And while it wasn't too hard, it was a lot of fun busting out your dudes and grabbing your gear to make a run for it at the end. I used a modified Gandalf Ally deck using Spirit Merry instead of Spirit Glorfy, and it was cool to free Gandalf, Treebeard, my heroes and more to victory!

This was my experience also. I played it with Sam as my starting hero and it wasn't too bad. I really had fun freeing my heros/allies/attachments with the Capture/Rescue mechanic. I enjoyed using Sam + Resourceful + Parting Gifts as a means to load up resources on my freed heros. Rescuing ally Treebeard was fun too, as he often arrived at a point where he wasn't needed right away. He was then available to help on the next turn. And I didn't have to summon him into play at a cost of 4. (This was true for other expensive allies, too).

I also enjoyed how the quest made a distinction between Skill attachments and Item/Artifact attachments. This meant that I could play cards such as Fast Hitch if I had the resource match and resources to do it. With a pretty small deck it didn't take long to find Fast Hitch and other Skill attachments.

I did give the quest a quick try with another deck and didn't fare too well, as my heros in that deck didn't have 3+ Willpower (Well, Galadriel does, but I didn't want her as my starting hero, heh). Without the willpower, I found myself location-locked pretty quickly which meant it was unlikely I was going to rescue anything else. That meant game over.

Thanks RobOz and others for initial impressions of the quest! It sounds like a simple but effective way to increase difficulty would be to select a starting hero at random. Maybe it would be a bit boring from a hero selection perspective as there just are not that many suitable ones, but I would be curious to hear what other people think about it. Has anyone tried that?

I played it last night 4 player and we won fairly easily. The biggest influence on our success was the 3 cards that are captured by your first prison cell, because you are guaranteed to get one of those 3 cards on the first turn. I lucked out and snagged the Treebeard ally, so between him and Elrond (with eventually 3 resourcefuls) I was able to muster an army of ents. Another guy was fortunate enough to get his 2nd hero from his original prison cell. Meanwhile, a 3rd guy only got a Defender of Rammas and he was quickly location locked because once a 2nd location appeared he had no chance to make progress. He just had to stall for time until everyone else finished their own stage 2B.

Hey so I don't have the quest yet... but it seems as though each player is more or less guaranteed to put a second hero into play during the travel phase of the first turn.

During setup you create your captured deck and place one of your two captured heroes on the top of your captured deck.

Each player advances to a different stage 2 and you then reveal a copy of Prison Cell and add it to your staging area (capturing an additional two cards underneath it).

This means each players initial copy of Prison Cell has their second hero and two other cards captured underneath it. Because when you travel to Prison Cell you get to put one of the captured cards underneath it into play free of cost does this not mean each player can travel to prison cell during the first travel phase and get a second hero into play?

Stage 2 actually has Capture 7 itself, so I guess that resolves first. In other words, your second hero will be rescued by placing progress on Stage 2 but you might get lucky and your third hero will be "in" the prison cell.

Ah! I thought I may have missed something!! Thank you

Or you could quest successfully during the first quest phase (for example with Elrond and playing ranger spikes first turn and having an enemy revealed) and reveal a few captured cards from underneath stage 2A and get lucky and get your second hero first turn.. hmm

It's possible to get both heroes on the first turn. One hero is guaranteed to be under the quest card, but the last hero could be anywhere, including the quest card or your prison cell. Even beyond Ranger Spikes, if you just get a treachery you could rescue multiple cards from the quest. Then you're guaranteed one from the prison cell, so you could be looking at 4-5 captured cards.

Now that's where I'm slightly confused, when you're placing captured cards under a "captive" card, specifically that quest card, would you build it one card at a time from your captured deck? Or just take a stack of (7 in this case) cards and put them under? that's the difference between getting him back on your first progress counter as opposed to your last before progressing

Edit: nvm, I forgot that your second captured hero could really be anywhere, so a first turn rescue of one is actually not that unlikely

Now that's where I'm slightly confused, when you're placing captured cards under a "captive" card, specifically that quest card, would you build it one card at a time from your captured deck? Or just take a stack of (7 in this case) cards and put them under? that's the difference between getting him back on your first progress counter as opposed to your last before progressing

I don't remember off-hand what the rules say, but I do remember that the quest stage itself instructs you to rescue cards from underneath it "at random", so the order in that specific case doesn't necessarily matter. This is an easy part of the text to miss.

If you start with Treebeard, draw Self-Preservation and play it first-turn, then stage a treachery, you can clear your quest stage first-turn and get all 7 cards.

And get dog piled by stage 3...

And get dog piled by stage 3...

I've only played it mutiplayer so far, so you can just join someone else.

Hoping the following helps:

The Mount Gram rules are on the FFG website now. Here's the specific instructions regarding hero setup with regard to the capture deck:

After preparing his or her captured deck, each player chooses
only 1 hero to be his or her starting hero. Then, each player
randomly sets aside 1 of his or her other heroes, facedown.
Shuffle any remaining heroes into their owner’s captured decks,
then place each facedown set aside hero on top of its owner’s
captured deck.

So you start with 1 hero in play, 1 hero shuffled into your Capture deck, and 1 hero stacked on the top of your Capture deck. Stage 2 instructs you to Capture 7, so the hero on top of your Capture deck will be captured by Stage 2B along with 6 other cards, including possibly your third hero. Stage 2 (can't remember if its 2A or B) also instructs you to reveal one Prison Cell, add it to the staging area and add 2 additional capture cards under the Prison Cell. This means that including the Prison Cell's base Capture 1, your first Prison Cell will start off with 3 captured cards under it. After you travel to any Prison Cell you are allowed to look at all cards under that Prison Cell, choose 1 and play it for free. Stage 2B also says that whenever progress points would be placed on the quest instead rescue that many captured cards. In my experience (played the scenario about 5 times solo so far) you will typically rescue 1-3 cards by putting progress on Stage 2B and then put one card into play for free by traveling to the set-up Prison Cell. This creates a decent chance of rescuing either the hero on top of your deck (which is in the Stage 2 Capture 7 group), the third hero that was randomly shuffled into the Capture deck during set-up, or both. It's also pretty fun to play a big ally (Treebeard, Beorn, Boromir, etc) through the free card gained by traveling to the first Prison Cell and getting to choose from a set of three cards.

After you've rescued all 7 of the cards captured under stage 2B you immediately proceed to stage 3.

Your set-up hero has to be a high Willpower hero (3+) in my experience or you will get location/enemy locked by threat and never rescue another card from that point on. Boosting the Willpower of your starting hero would also work, but you would need a way to repeat or sustain this boost, otherwise you'll get locked out by threat in the staging area again (Eowyn makes for a pretty good starting hero). Ok, there are other ways you could place progress on locations or the quest, but it seems to me the safest method is with a hero with decent Willpower.

Regarding the Capture X mechanic, here are the rules from the rules insert:

When an encounter card or quest card with the capture
X keyword enters play, before resolving that card’s “when
revealed” effects, each player takes the top X cards of his or
her captured deck and captures them by placing them facedown
underneath that card.

In reading these rules it does occur to me that they are a bit vague as to how multiple captured cards are arranged. Are they randomly arranged under the card with capture, or are they placed under the capture card in the order they are drawn from the capture deck?

Hoping the following helps:

The Mount Gram rules are on the FFG website now. Here's the specific instructions regarding hero setup with regard to the capture deck:

After preparing his or her captured deck, each player chooses

only 1 hero to be his or her starting hero. Then, each player

randomly sets aside 1 of his or her other heroes, facedown.

Shuffle any remaining heroes into their owner’s captured decks,

then place each facedown set aside hero on top of its owner’s

captured deck.

So you start with 1 hero in play, 1 hero shuffled into your Capture deck, and 1 hero stacked on the top of your Capture deck. Stage 2 instructs you to Capture 7, so the hero on top of your Capture deck will be captured by Stage 2B along with 6 other cards, including possibly your third hero. Stage 2 (can't remember if its 2A or B) also instructs you to reveal one Prison Cell, add it to the staging area and add 2 additional capture cards under the Prison Cell. This means that including the Prison Cell's base Capture 1, your first Prison Cell will start off with 3 captured cards under it. After you travel to any Prison Cell you are allowed to look at all cards under that Prison Cell, choose 1 and play it for free. Stage 2B also says that whenever progress points would be placed on the quest instead rescue that many captured cards. In my experience (played the scenario about 5 times solo so far) you will typically rescue 1-3 cards by putting progress on Stage 2B and then put one card into play for free by traveling to the set-up Prison Cell. This creates a decent chance of rescuing either the hero on top of your deck (which is in the Stage 2 Capture 7 group), the third hero that was randomly shuffled into the Capture deck during set-up, or both. It's also pretty fun to play a big ally (Treebeard, Beorn, Boromir, etc) through the free card gained by traveling to the first Prison Cell and getting to choose from a set of three cards.

After you've rescued all 7 of the cards captured under stage 2B you immediately proceed to stage 3.

Your set-up hero has to be a high Willpower hero (3+) in my experience or you will get location/enemy locked by threat and never rescue another card from that point on. Boosting the Willpower of your starting hero would also work, but you would need a way to repeat or sustain this boost, otherwise you'll get locked out by threat in the staging area again (Eowyn makes for a pretty good starting hero). Ok, there are other ways you could place progress on locations or the quest, but it seems to me the safest method is with a hero with decent Willpower.

Regarding the Capture X mechanic, here are the rules from the rules insert:

When an encounter card or quest card with the capture

X keyword enters play, before resolving that card’s “when

revealed” effects, each player takes the top X cards of his or

her captured deck and captures them by placing them facedown

underneath that card.

In reading these rules it does occur to me that they are a bit vague as to how multiple captured cards are arranged. Are they randomly arranged under the card with capture, or are they placed under the capture card in the order they are drawn from the capture deck?

The one issue I have is that multiple players can end up with cards captured under the same card - so if multiple people include the same vcard in their respective decks, how do you know whose it is when you rescue it?

That can be a tricky one. If players are using different sleeves, then it makes things easy. If not, you could have each stack of captured cards pointing towards the players they belong to. You just have to be careful about not messing up this orientation.

Random side note regarding the quest. I adore that they included some custom backstory for Rossiel, that was such a great trend they initiated with Idraen and I hope they continue to do it and realize how much more impactful it can make the experience when playing with those heroes. Was a pleasure to read and imagine.

(sorry if this was covered in a previous page or in another topic....theres like 5 threads a piece on mount gram and land of shadow at the top of the forums and its hard to keep up)