I like this idea on the X-wing only. It would give the ship a unique twist that no other ship has and also give it some serious punch. You could fly it out of trouble, get the target lock, and swoop in again.

Ya, no

Bbbbz would just be sick in that case

I would target lock from turn 1

Now when we get into fire range I'll focus

Having 5 ships, 4 of which will have 3 attack dice all with target locks and focus

If you feel that having just a focus and target lock action is a waste early game, then fly something else, or take a shuttle with the title.

As i said in my first post, debate it till your blue in the face, it's not going to make ffg faq it in or make any massive change to the game

If everyone had their way and ffg listened to everyone's ideas we wouldn't be playing xwing, but probably my little transforming ponies that spew razorblades from their eyes

This is exhausting. Is nobody actually reading the proposed fix? If you don't have a missile or torpedo equipped, you cannot target lock beyond range 3. That's the proposed fix. In BBBBZ there are no secondary weapons so you can't TL on turn 1.

Granted, all you have to do is drop the Z and add 4 Flechette Torpedoes and suddenly you're in business.

I haven't made up my mind about this proposed fix, but it's irritating that so many people are saying this fix is broken when they are ignoring a huge part of the rules in this fix: the requirement to carry a missile or torpedo. And it's not just you, Krynn. Lots of people are doing the same thing.

Ya, no

Bbbbz would just be sick in that case

I would target lock from turn 1

Now when we get into fire range I'll focus

Having 5 ships, 4 of which will have 3 attack dice all with target locks and focus

If you feel that having just a focus and target lock action is a waste early game, then fly something else, or take a shuttle with the title.

As i said in my first post, debate it till your blue in the face, it's not going to make ffg faq it in or make any massive change to the game

If everyone had their way and ffg listened to everyone's ideas we wouldn't be playing xwing, but probably my little transforming ponies that spew razorblades from their eyes

This is exhausting. Is nobody actually reading the proposed fix? If you don't have a missile or torpedo equipped, you cannot target lock beyond range 3. That's the proposed fix. In BBBBZ there are no secondary weapons so you can't TL on turn 1.

Granted, all you have to do is drop the Z and add 4 Flechette Torpedoes and suddenly you're in business.

I haven't made up my mind about this proposed fix, but it's irritating that so many people are saying this fix is broken when they are ignoring a huge part of the rules in this fix: the requirement to carry a missile or torpedo. And it's not just you, Krynn. Lots of people are doing the same thing.

It's still a bad idea. You can do things like this:

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Homing Missiles (5)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Homing Missiles (5)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Homing Missiles (5)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Homing Missiles (5)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

Concussion Missiles (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

A TIE swarm wouldn't last long against that. Hell, Soontir would die the first round he's in range. It just makes generics too good again.

Ya, no Bbbbz would just be sick in that case

I would target lock from turn 1

Now when we get into fire range I'll focus

Having 5 ships, 4 of which will have 3 attack dice all with target locks and focus

If you feel that having just a focus and target lock action is a waste early game, then fly something else, or take a shuttle with the title.

As i said in my first post, debate it till your blue in the face, it's not going to make ffg faq it in or make any massive change to the game

If everyone had their way and ffg listened to everyone's ideas we wouldn't be playing xwing, but probably my little transforming ponies that spew razorblades from their eyes

This is exhausting. Is nobody actually reading the proposed fix? If you don't have a missile or torpedo equipped, you cannot target lock beyond range 3. That's the proposed fix. In BBBBZ there are no secondary weapons so you can't TL on turn 1.

Granted, all you have to do is drop the Z and add 4 Flechette Torpedoes and suddenly you're in business.

I haven't made up my mind about this proposed fix, but it's irritating that so many people are saying this fix is broken when they are ignoring a huge part of the rules in this fix: the requirement to carry a missile or torpedo. And it's not just you, Krynn. Lots of people are doing the same thing.

I'll be blunt it's really bad.

Yes let's make everything that can do an alpha strike be over powered

Making cheap ships like z95 and awing super strong and hinder other ships like tie fighters.

To be blunt a real bad idea

Not to mention your taking away an element of the game away. The strategy element

With this kind of rule in place you take a huge amount of consideration out of building lists and how to fly them.

Getting that alpha strike off takes skill and manoeuvring. What your asking is am easy and imo a lazy way to do things

It's more like "I want a super easy way to so this...."

Again doesn't matter how much you repeat it, the idea sucks and ffg are not reading this thread Saying "what a wonderful idea let's faq this in next week"

If that's what your expecting, don't hold your breath.

If you want to make it a house rule in your friendly games nothing is stopping you, but if that was the case I hope you teach new players the correct way instead of your way so they don't go to a tournament someday and look like total newbs

See, now we're talking. Now people are responding to alpha strikes and addressing the issue of ordnance being too easy with this fix instead of complaining about how BBBBZ is broken with this fix when BBBBZ is completely irrelevant here.

Now, I'm not gonna say this fix is great, but I disagree about maneuvering for a target lock being an important strategic part of the game. It has become an important part of hte game because that's how the rules forced us to develop our strategies, but I think TLs and ordnance could have wokred better. The fact that 4 Rookies with Proton Torpedoes in wave 1 was a difficult squad to play goes to show that TLs and torpedoes - as implemented early on - were probably not the best mechanic the designers could have gone with.

In other words, no, I'm not saying this fix is great. But I also disagree that the rules are perfect as they stand.

Double post

Your correct imo

While it's not perfect it is what it is

Ffg has been finding ways to bring ordnance into play and wave 7 shows us this

I a little disappointed for the bomber but Meh, can't have everything

everything

I still feel maneuvering plays a huge aspect when trying to get that lock

Take scimitar bombers.

If your flying at your opponent you want to position yourself in a way that your in the correct range to get that lock and fire off your payload

Play it poorly and your outside range 3 unable to get a lock, and next round if your opponent flies well, is all of a sudden at range 1, so no cluster missles for you

Another example I've seen is using biggs. I seen my opponent target lock some ships because at the time was out of range of biggs, next biggs is in that sweet spot, if only he could have target locked him, but now he has to shoot biggs while his lock is on another ship.

These are just some example

I feel some are just wanting to make it easier for themselves, and actually not looking at the big picture of how such a rule would effect many other things.

If you want that free range target lock you can get it for 29 pts. Jendon with the title, which I've seen work quite well with a group of bombers. In a skilled hand quite deadly

Edit

Another option, take a pilot with a EPT slot

Equip deadeye. Have a crew slot? Throw Recon specialist in there.

These are options that are readily available.

Don't like it? There are many other option out there

Yes, I am a huge fan of Recon Specialist + Deadeye.

I'm as interested in Fire sprays and Y wings with bombs as the Imperial bombers. Love both these ships as is and with new bombs, crew they may be even better.

Can I ask? What element of the game does it take away? I'm getting of tired of people saying it takes away from the game, but not stating where is does that? It like when people say that idea's sucks in a business meeting, but have none of their own idea's.

They've answered that question multiple times. By allowing extreme range target locks (ST-321 nonwithstanding) you make the target lock action automatic when you're out of range. Effectively you make every game start with target locks. You also remove some depth when it comes to lower skill pilots and the additional difficulty of establishing locks.

If you want to pick your target when you shoot grab Deadeye. If your bomber doesn't have a slot for Deadeye, buy a more expensive bomber.

No. Target locks should not be used in missile or torpedo attacks however, its just stupid that they are.

...

...

You have actually seen a Star Wars film, right?

Yes I have seen them all. Acquiring a target lock is part of the attack in the films, but in the interest of the game balance it should be used for rerolling of the dice as well. Its not clearly stated in the film but one assumes that just like in real life the target lock helps guide the missile to target, and therefore assisting in the attack (in this game modifying the dice).

Its as simple as having the card say you must have a target lock on other ship to use missile or torpedo, not spend one to attack it. Its #1 on my wish list for any 2nd edition changes they come up with. You certainly wouldn't see a ton of 2 ship lists with these changes, MOV would not rely on "Fat" ships of any kind.

Well I stand corrected

I'm no aviation expert that is for sure lol

Even so, the idea suggested is not a good one as others have said, it takes away an element from the game

It's a game after all and for balance and other purposes the target lock system is fine the way it is

I mean if we want to talk realistic, then why do ships always have their engines on in the movies? One thing that always bugs me.

In space (and space combat)once you reach your desired speed there would be no need for your engine to be on, as you'll continue on at your current speed, but yet they are always continously running.

If we were to have this game played out realistically then once you boost with engine upgrade then you should actually be moving faster and faster, and not the same speed

Doesn't quite work well in this game

As an airforce officer with a fair chunk of radar knowledge, I can safely tell you that the larger the target, the more likely/further away it can be detected and locked.

As a more thematic change, i'd say Epic ships = unlimited range to be LOCKED, large ships range 4 and 5 to be locked, small ships range 3

Problem as it's been pointed out. Not everyone has a huge ship.

Therefore making a range 4-6 range with just the starter kit isn't likely.

You can target lock range 4-6 in epic play if you have a specific upgrade on the Tantive and only the Tantive can do this

Like I said earlier it's a boardgames so realism just doesn't work

As i pointed out in the post you quoted

If we were to talk realism then technically when flying in space once you reach your desired speed, you no longer need any trust therefore can cut all engines and continue on at your current speed.

Therefor every time you use Engine upgrade you should actually be going faster and faster, but that just doesn't convert well in a board game.

But it is something we still see in most Sci fi movies which is something that gets to me for whatever reason lol

You alway see the star fighters or whatever with their engines on constantly, which really they wouldn't need

It's actually something most Sci fi movies get wrong

I think battlestar galactic may have gotten right. Can remember, but I think one Sci fi movie Got it right anyway lol

Edit

Or maybe they got it half right lol.

When you see them slowing down you see a reverse thrust happening, since you couldn't step on the break. It's not like driving a car

Plus there isn't any atmosphere or gravity taking onto effect and when you watch these space battles they fly ad though they are in the atmosphere but that is getting over over my head lol

I remember reading an article somewhere about even just to barrel roll in space would not be anything like barrel rolling in earth's atmosphere, and is something else Hollywood gets wrong

I don't see why they don't give a Modification, computer that works like the deadeye ept. Generics would instantly be better.

1 pts

Modification

Ordnance Computer

You may treat and Attack Target Lock as Attack Focus. When an attack instructs you to discard target lock you may discard a focus token instead.

Now I think your heading in the right direction

I've always felt that Target Lock should be unlimited range, but require actually being in the ships firing arc. And if at the start of your attack phase, your target isn't in your firing arc anymore, you lose the target lock.

Making it work the way it's actually supposed to work.

Problem as it's been pointed out. Not everyone has a huge ship.

Therefore making a range 4-6 range with just the starter kit isn't likely.

You can target lock range 4-6 in epic play if you have a specific upgrade on the Tantive and only the Tantive can do this

Like I said earlier it's a boardgames so realism just doesn't work

As i pointed out in the post you quoted

If we were to talk realism then technically when flying in space once you reach your desired speed, you no longer need any trust therefore can cut all engines and continue on at your current speed.

Therefor every time you use Engine upgrade you should actually be going faster and faster, but that just doesn't convert well in a board game.

But it is something we still see in most Sci fi movies which is something that gets to me for whatever reason lol

You alway see the star fighters or whatever with their engines on constantly, which really they wouldn't need

It's actually something most Sci fi movies get wrong

I think battlestar galactic may have gotten right. Can remember, but I think one Sci fi movie Got it right anyway lol

Edit

Or maybe they got it half right lol.

When you see them slowing down you see a reverse thrust happening, since you couldn't step on the break. It's not like driving a car

Plus there isn't any atmosphere or gravity taking onto effect and when you watch these space battles they fly ad though they are in the atmosphere but that is getting over over my head lol

I remember reading an article somewhere about even just to barrel roll in space would not be anything like barrel rolling in earth's atmosphere, and is something else Hollywood gets wrong

Actually it was Babylon 5 (1994-1998) that was the first show that showed realistic maneuvering in a zero g environment...

Babylon 5 was realistic 3d space combat for sure. Not as exciting to watch but realistic. Love that show though!

Ahh yes that's it.

I think they should add a new ordnance die myself with a higher number of hits to balance out the fact you can't modify the diced due to spending the TL.

I think the problem with that is it is not included in the core set which includes everything you need to play.

Only way I could see this is if they came out with a second edition

Which I don't see happening for a while

I like it.

I think it'd make for an interesting game, trying to keep your TL'ed ships out of arc. And as someone said, it gives a boost to many of the ships and upgrades which are seen as underpowered.

Maybe you could make it a free modification so there's an opportunity cost if you take it (there's lots of competition for that upgrade slot).

Improved Targeting Computer

0 points

Modification

If you have a missile or torpedo upgrade equipped, you may gain a target lock at any range, provided your target is inside your ship's firing arc.

Or how about if it came with special tokens?

Improved Targeting Computer v2

0 points

Modification

If you have a missile or torpedo upgrade equipped, you may gain a target lock at any range, provided your target is inside your ship's firing arc. Use an ordnance target lock token instead of the normal target lock token. Ordnance target locks can only be spent when attacking with missile or torpedoes.

vs

Well I stand corrected

I'm no aviation expert that is for sure lol

Even so, the idea suggested is not a good one as others have said, it takes away an element from the game

It's a game after all and for balance and other purposes the target lock system is fine the way it is

I mean if we want to talk realistic, then why do ships always have their engines on in the movies? One thing that always bugs me.

In space (and space combat)once you reach your desired speed there would be no need for your engine to be on, as you'll continue on at your current speed, but yet they are always continously running.

If we were to have this game played out realistically then once you boost with engine upgrade then you should actually be moving faster and faster, and not the same speed

Doesn't quite work well in this game

As an airforce officer with a fair chunk of radar knowledge, I can safely tell you that the larger the target, the more likely/further away it can be detected and locked.

As a more thematic change, i'd say Epic ships = unlimited range to be LOCKED, large ships range 4 and 5 to be locked, small ships range 3

I'd make it up to range 5 to lock onto an epic, up to 4 to lock onto a large base, and up to 3 for a small based ships. Great idea.

Expanding standard play to allow for ranges 4-5 could fix certain things about this game but the problem is getting the larger range ruler to everyone. Maybe they could be sold separately for a dollar or two?

Well seeing as they say everything you need to play is in the core set selling it separately just doesn't work

Even if they offered it for free, still very likely wouldn't work, because now everything is not in the core set in which you need

As stated before only way would be release a new core set which isn't going to be happening for awhile

I still don't think the idea of increasing the range is a good one

Well seeing as they say everything you need to play is in the core set selling it separately just doesn't work

Even if they offered it for free, still very likely wouldn't work, because now everything is not in the core set in which you need

As stated before only way would be release a new core set which isn't going to be happening for awhile

I still don't think the idea of increasing the range is a good one

While you could technically bring only 2 TIE Fighters or a beefed up single X Wing to a 100 point tournament, I'd argue that it's not, 'everything you need to play'. The dice pack is also sold separately.

Alot of players already have a huge range ruler. Selling spares for a dollar or two wouldn't be that traumatic of a change IMO. Package it with new cores and sell extras on the side for a dollar or two.

Only way I could see this is if they came out with a second edition

Which I don't see happening for a while

I think this all of this discussion comes down to this simple fact.

Missiles and Torpedoes do a piss-poor job of representing how those weapons should work. But a satisfying change requires a complete rewrite of the rules of how these weapons function. Which isn't going to happen until there's a 2nd Edition.

Still, it's fun to hear people's ideas.