Yeah the history of Dac is a twisted mess. Early EU sources claim the world's first contact with galactic civilization was during the Empire though that had to be changed to an Imperial lie as part of a revisionist history campaign after some Mon Calamari appeared in the PT and in pre-PT Legends material.

I seem to remember that the Mon Cal were portrayed as fighting for the CIS in the Clone Wars comic.

If I'm remembering it right, it was only some Mon Cal allying with the Quarren alongside the Separatists.

Yeah the history of Dac is a twisted mess. Early EU sources claim the world's first contact with galactic civilization was during the Empire though that had to be changed to an Imperial lie as part of a revisionist history campaign after some Mon Calamari appeared in the PT and in pre-PT Legends material.

I seem to remember that the Mon Cal were portrayed as fighting for the CIS in the Clone Wars comic.

If I'm remembering it right, it was only some Mon Cal allying with the Quarren alongside the Separatists.

Yeah the planet was officially allied with the Republic but in the EU there were both Mon Calamari and Quarrens who joined the CIS In the new canon though it looks like the planet's CIS supporters were Quarren only.

Yeah the history of Dac is a twisted mess. Early EU sources claim the world's first contact with galactic civilization was during the Empire though that had to be changed to an Imperial lie as part of a revisionist history campaign after some Mon Calamari appeared in the PT and in pre-PT Legends material.

I seem to remember that the Mon Cal were portrayed as fighting for the CIS in the Clone Wars comic.

If I'm remembering it right, it was only some Mon Cal allying with the Quarren alongside the Separatists.

Yeah the planet was officially allied with the Republic but in the EU there were both Mon Calamari and Quarrens who joined the CIS In the new canon though it looks like the planet's CIS supporters were Quarren only.

Either way, I liked it because was more of shades of grey deal with no culture being clearly on one side vs the Prince Valiant goes to war against meth addicted Snidly Whiplash the TCW show gave us.

Yeah my biggest complaints about The Clone Wars CGI show were in no particular order too many stories that little or nothing to do with the conflict between the CIS and the Republic, the shortage of major space battle focused episodes in the later seasons, and the lack of any CIS military commander who aren't escapees from a B-movie villain gallery. The last point is especially bad because every comic series set during the Clone Wars managed to give us at least one CIS military commander driven by ideals rather then greed or blood lust but the CGI show's writers utterly failed to do so and didn't even try to do so IMO.

I keep checking out the updates on this thread hoping someone says they got their hands on it, but no such luck.

it has been two months since it got on the boat what is taking so long?

it has been two months since it got on the boat what is taking so long?

Two months isn't really so long for this step of the process. Still, I admit that I'm getting a bit impatient waiting for the next few books that are all on the boat right now,

Yeah my biggest complaints about The Clone Wars CGI show were in no particular order too many stories that little or nothing to do with the conflict between the CIS and the Republic, the shortage of major space battle focused episodes in the later seasons, and the lack of any CIS military commander who aren't escapees from a B-movie villain gallery. The last point is especially bad because every comic series set during the Clone Wars managed to give us at least one CIS military commander driven by ideals rather then greed or blood lust but the CGI show's writers utterly failed to do so and didn't even try to do so IMO.

Because it was a kids show, and kids shows need easily defined (and stereotypical) villains and not complex and deep antagonists that make us wonder which side is really the right one.

Which is why I largely despise TCW (and the Prequels) and still strongly dislike Rebels (although, it's a tiny teeny bit better... so far)

So showing the heroes of a show torturing prisoners for information is ok for a kids show but having a military commander opposing the heroes who isn't truly evil isn't ok. That's insane.

I don't mind the idea of one side being shown as being more evil then the other, though it doesn't really fit a war where both sides are controlled by the settings ultimate villain, but there's no such thing as a large scale war where every commander on one side is evil. Even the most horrible governments in humanity's history have had a few military commanders that weren't evil incarnate.

Even Episode III's opening text says there are heroes on both sides. But for some reason the writers of The Clone Wars decided the only sympathetic CIS members we were allowed to see were politicians and diplomats because apparently antagonist politicians being good is ok in their eyes but antagonist military commanders must be utterly evil.

So showing the heroes of a show torturing prisoners for information is ok for a kids show but having a military commander opposing the heroes who isn't truly evil isn't ok. That's insane.

Pretty much, yeah...

Without trying to get too political, the thought of torture has been somewhat "watered down" in the last decade. It's "ok" for heroes to do it if they "need to".

But the same kind of discussion was happening on the SWTOR forums when someone was objecting to same-sex relationships in the game because of "think of the children!" type arguments.

Apparantly, pointing out that you can actually torture enemies in some of the storylines was not enough to convince them that children shouldn't play the game in the first place.

it has been two months since it got on the boat what is taking so long?

Found a picture of the boat they must be using...

So showing the heroes of a show torturing prisoners for information is ok for a kids show but having a military commander opposing the heroes who isn't truly evil isn't ok. That's insane.

I don't mind the idea of one side being shown as being more evil then the other, though it doesn't really fit a war where both sides are controlled by the settings ultimate villain, but there's no such thing as a large scale war where every commander on one side is evil. Even the most horrible governments in humanity's history have had a few military commanders that weren't evil incarnate.

Even Episode III's opening text says there are heroes on both sides. But for some reason the writers of The Clone Wars decided the only sympathetic CIS members we were allowed to see were politicians and diplomats because apparently antagonist politicians being good is ok in their eyes but antagonist military commanders must be utterly evil.

Again ..... it's a kids show. The hero's are the Jedi. Some bad guys went good near the end, Ventress ..... several members of Death Watch after Maul takes over. But ultimately the writers were making a show aimed at 10 year olds. It's no more complex than G.I. Joe or He Man. The fact that in real wars both sides are equally good and bad is moot. This isn't a real war. It's not a story about a real war. It's a make believe story about a make believe war aimed at entertaining children. A more adult version of the show likely would have delved deeper into just who the good guys really are ..... but we didn't get that. We got a kids show.

We can't fault the show for being what it was. They didn't pitch it at us as a complex war story meant to explore the realities of war. They pitched it as a fun half hour of Jedi action that would let mom and dad eat breakfast in peace. It does really well for a kids show.

Yeah except GI Joe and He-Man didn't have movies that described the conflicts as having heroes on both sides. Episode III's opening text gave very little detail about the Clone Wars yet the writers of the CGI show somehow managed to screw up what little detail was given.

Yeah except GI Joe and He-Man didn't have movies that described the conflicts as having heroes on both sides. Episode III's opening text gave very little detail about the Clone Wars yet the writers of the CGI show somehow managed to screw up what little detail was given.

Again ..... it's a childrens show. The writers didn't screw anything up. They never intended it to be anything other than Jedi hero's defeating CIS villains. They interjected bits of grey here and there (the bounty hunters were a nice touch) but overall they stuck to a script that adhered to what they were aiming for, a tv show for children. If the show had been created for adults as the center audience they likely would have had hero's on both sides (and to be fair the show did do a bit of work in highlight that the CIS wasn't all evil soooooo). The lack of hero's from the CIS has more to do with the fact that the CIS was never the protagonist of the show.

Or maybe you're just reading to much into a crawl that was shown at the beginning of Ep III. Because frankly nothing in EP III itself even supports the idea of hero's on both sides. So the show wasn't the first to toss that idea by the wayside. It was mentioned and then immediately discarded. If you're going to blame anything it should be Ep III.

I really wish the story had been different, with Dooku not being a Sith but instead he was the only guy that saw what was coming and took a stand against the increasingly corrupt Republic and the shortsighted Jedi Order. Tragically, the winners write history, and thus he was framed as a villain.

Yeah that would have been great.

And the thing about Episode III not showing any CIS heroes is we saw almost nothing of the CIS Leadership in the movie. All we saw was Grievious,Dooku, and the high council members and we know almost nothing about most of the council members from the films alone. That means we only see one CIS Military officer in the movie so nothing near enough of a sample to assume there aren't heroic commanders in their military.

Again ..... it's a kid's show. It's main audience were kids who they were attempting to sell action figures too. The goals of a kids show are completely different from the goals of an adult show. Going into a kids show expecting this deep and complex look at war is just setting yourself up for disappointment. The show does a good job of greying things a bit near the final seasons. Some characters are shown to be less evil than when they start out. But ultimately the main audience wasn't dire hard Star Wars fans who wanted to see a deep portrayal of war and conflict. It's main audience were kids who were going to have make believe lightsabre battles. They marketed the show for what they wanted it to be.

It was meant to be fun. Gotta accept the show for what it was. It never once pretended that it was anything other than a show aimed at kids.

Yeah I know many of the arcs I hated in the series were written specifically for kids I believe. But its not like kids would stop buying action figures if a more idealistic, less evil CIS commander showed up in the series.

It's a kids show ......

it has been two months since it got on the boat what is taking so long?

Depends on when someone started the clock for "on the ship". If they started when the printer put them in a box, then it could be days from then to when it gets to the harbor and up to a week to get onto a container ship. Then at least 2 weeks crossing the ocean (or more depending on what container ship got the load) and then another week of unloading at the destination harbor (or more depending on the lag getting the ships into port due to how many piers are available vs the load/unload time for each given ship). Add in some lag from Customs. Then there is the time to get it from LA to Minnesota on a train which could be quite a few more days, then the truck to the actual warehouse for FFG and finally getting it out to distributors so that stores have it when FFG gives it a street date so that all is fair for both the brick and mortar stores and FFG when it comes to us, the players, getting the books.

We're quickly running out of days in Q3...

it has been two months since it got on the boat what is taking so long?

Found a picture of the boat they must be using...

Wonder when they are going to remember to pull up the anchor.

It's a kids show ......

...about war. Nice.

It's a kids show ......

...about war. Nice.

G.I. Joe was a kids show about a terrorist organization. It's not like you can't use war in a kids show. It's just kids shows aren't going to explore deeper issues. They are going to keep it very simple. A kids show about war is going to use a very simple accounting of war than an adult show about war. You can't expect the same kind of content when the main audience they are marketing to is kids. If the main audience were adults I'd feel differently, but given that it's kids I think the show did a good job of being a kids show.

Why is this debate about the Star Wars TV shows still going on in a thread about the next source book?