I love the idea of this card. I play Screed on a VSD and 2 GSDs. Demolisher is a no-brainer and I've used it on every game I've ran. However, I've probably had 9 games with Insidious and I've only been able to use it on one game. To be fair, it was awesome once it kicked in, but 1 out of 9 is just not often enough.

It's a great pity though --- the idea is cool --- being able to use black dice out to medium range, plus Screed... ooooh! The hurt! It's actually getting the GSD in that position though. I've found that it is hard enough to do a flanking attack without being subject to so much attacks. If all my ships were jousting against him, sometimes his ships can only do one attack. Having a ship that is trying to flank means there is now a secondary target they can shoot at. I can mitigate this by making my Insidious GSD go around a bigger circle and thus only risk red-dice attacks but then the next problem is closing the gap once I'm behind the enemy. There is also the issue about the GSD not being much of a threat while it tries to flank....

On the few instances that I have managed to set it up that I am at a ship's 6 o'clock, it's usually at medium range.... and he is the first player and simply activates his ship, fires at all valid targets, then runs away. If only there was a way to combine Insidious with Demolisher.... a GSD that is chasing another ship is useless without Demolisher, but a GSD with Demolisher usually doesn't end up in a "chase" role anyway.

I wonder if it's just me and the way I fly? Has anyone else had much luck in getting Insidious to work? Or should I just shelf this for now and find another use for my GSD? I usually bid low, decide to get the other guy to be first player, and my Objective cards are Advanced Gunnery, Contested Outpost, and Intel Sweep. The only time my Insidious kicked in was against an almost mirror build (Screed, VSD, 2x GSDs) and playing Contested Outpost.

Yeah, its difficult to line up those shots... Especially with it being on a faster ship like the Gladiator (of course, faster being relative...)

I've found it basically worked best for me when I used the Gladiator like a Super-Slow VSD... it hung out at the edge of the engagement zone at speed one, until the Rebel Assault Frigate was trying to do its pass around the back of a forward-moving VSD, popping both arcs at it...

Then with a Command Token + a Navigate Dial, I was able to boost up to Speed 3 and angle right after the Assault Frigate...

The hardest part was making my opponent ignore the Gladiator until it was ready - the fact that it *wasn't* demolisher helped them in that instance, but its a tricky song-and-dance otherwise...

That is the kicker to it - You've got to overcommit somewhere else to draw them into position - and hope they take the bait without seeing the consequence.

That's one problem --- getting into position.

However, once I'm there, well, unless I'm at the rear of two of his ships, it's hard. If I am behind just one ship, he can just activate that and basically run away. If I am behind two ships, well, he can run away with the first one but my GSD is going to take a beating... one attack from his first ship's rear arc, the possibly two attacks from his second ship unless I use my GSD's move to disengage or if I'm not much faster than his second ship.

Insidious is cheap enough to use I think and worth the cost at 3 points.

True, but still, something that costs 3 points but is not used at all during a game is still 3 points wasted.

I use Insidious all the time. At 3 points, the ability is worth it even if you only get it to work once. It is one of my favorite Imperial ships to use with Hyperspace Assault. It also often lets you fire broadside one turn but still be in range on the next turn if your target decides to just book it out of there because "OMG GSD" and whatnot.

Speaking from the Rebel side of things, I think part of the value of the Insidious is simply its ability to deny an area to certain maneuvers. I had to abort an Assault Frigate arc and turn hard into the Insidious' nose because of the threat of it slipping by and ending up on my tail. And my opponent had set up a VSD behind it, making that maneuver extra painful anyway. I get how it can seem like 3 points for one use out of nine seems like a rip-off, but I recommend watching to see how your opponents maneuver to stay away from the Insidious. You may find that three points for the the area control is more useful than it initially seemed.

I think Insidious will come into its full effectiveness when large ships enter the fray

Insidious is a trap. Don't bother with it.

First, medium range is the shortest band, so it limits utility.

Second, you can only use it when firing at the back. Meaning you only use it again slow ships (who you could get behind) that then you couldn't move just a little bit closer to. So never.

Third, it competes with Demolisher, which is one of the best titles in the game.

Fourth, wasting points bidding for initiative is better than points used on wasted upgrades. If you lose three extra points when Insidious is shot down.

Last Insidious is a silly title. The empire are forces of law and order. Not left handed monsters. (Corrupter too is out of place)

I'm happy enough with insidious. Sure its not as over the top as demolisher, but for three points it is well priced and has the potential to dramatically increase your firepower. Just don't build a plan around it. Its a one or two shots a game target of opportunity upgrade in the late stages, probably on a glad that you are using to cover the sides/backs of your VSDs. Assault frigates love racing past a VSD to get out of its front arc, keeping Insidious close to back them up usually work well.

Insidious is 3 points. It's like Paragon, difficult to get off by far more than worth it if you do

Insidious is a trap. Don't bother with it.
First, medium range is the shortest band, so it limits utility.

well no,

medium just by itself is the shortest band, but you're adding that to short range for a 150% increase in range over normal black dice.

One way I've played Insidious and got to the back arc was by deploying a VSD at speed 2 to the side of the map where Rebel ships were likely to be, slightly angled towards the inside to deny a flank or make it too risky for the Rebs to flank him near the table edge.

Then, Insidious (with Engine Techs) deploys at 2-3 from the VSD at Speed 1 more towards the center than the VSD, with the same angle. At a point in Turn 2 or 3, the Rebel player started steering towards the flank without any Star Destroyers, and just exposed his rear arcs for the Insidious to shoot at. With a banked Nav and a Command, moving up to speed 3 coupled with the Engine Techs allowed him to keep up with the pesky Rebels and get 2 turns of shooting in their rear arcs.

But like other people say, the greatest strength of Insidious is not the fact that it can shoot at medium range with its black dice. It's that it'll help control the movement of the Rebel fleet that will try to avoid showing their rear arcs to Insidious. And this is where it lives up to its name, because most Rebel players won't see that they're being funneled into a killzone.

@BlakLanner: Ah... I don't have Hyperspace Assault on my Objectives list... might be an idea, thanks!

@Cuthawolf: I do agree that I've seen my opponents adjust their maneuvers due to Insidious being present so it is indeed a factor for the other player's game plan. I just don't like that I'm not actively using it and I wonder if the 3 points is better spent elsewhere on something that'll kick in more often. This is just like the VSD... my opponents try to maneuver so they are not in my front arc or minimize their exposure to the front arc. However, the VSD's front arc firepower is there by default. I had to spend 3 points for Insidious.

@PewPewPew: I fly with 2 GSDs anyway and on every game, the Demolisher GSD makes full use of that ability so there is no question with regards to bringing that card along.

@Ophion: I don't really build my plan around it, but I try to have a plan for the Insidious GSD to try to get a use of the title. Like I said, however, I've only got to use it once out of 9 games.

@ficklegreendice: It was SWEET when I got two rounds of shooting on a VSD's rear arc with the Insidious, so I'd like to do that more often. Maybe it's just me having to learn how to position my ships.

@MoffZen: any chance of a quick drawing to show how you set up your ships? I need to work on making a killzone...

The name is out of place, but only because the Imperial propaganda machine wasn't on the ball. It's like US immigration calling itself ICE. The only surprising aspect is that they are admitting the truth.

@Intys Rule : I'll try to make a drawing tomorrow, but to summarize, imagine that you deploy your VSD angled at 45° inwards and positioned at distance 3 from the left or right table edge and at distance 3 from your back table edge. Now position the Insidious at a similar angle at distance 3 from the back table edge and at distance 3 form the VSD more towards the center of the table. Speed 2 on both.

Obviously it depends on the counter deployment, but they have a choice : if they want to get away from the VSD, they'll have to expose their rear to Insidious, and if they don't want that to happen they have to fly towards the VSD's front arc. And in the latter scenario, you can still outflank them late game with Insidious that now gets to shoot at midrange. Obviously they'll try to activate first to get away but you'll have them in a pincer maneuver with the VSD, so if they do activate, they'll end up caught in the front arc.

As a back up, there needs to be a healthy dose of fighters to win squadron combat. If the enemy tries to chicken away from the fight with his ships and throws in squadrons, you're going to want to be able to win the squadron game to rack up points. Which is why I tend to run Insidious as a Gladiator-II and the Victory-II as a carrier with Expanded Hangar and as many squadrons as I can fit in !

I think Insidious also needs support from objectives to work. The objective selection I'd like to experiment with are Advanced Artillery, Hyperspace Assault, Superior Positions. Here's a list I'm working on https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/183333-insidious-empire-squadron-heavy/

Insidious has the same problem CR90Bs do; getting behind a target is one thing, but if it's moving at speed three you're still not getting off shots without some dangerous flying. At speed two, you can stay on target, but you're going to need to close to short range regardless. Else they move and you can't fire. Or, you fire and then move and oh whoops now I'm in a broadside.

As far as the name itself, it's perfectly in place. Imperial names draw heavily from the names of actual Royal Navy vessels, and Insidious isn't any more nuts than Carcass. Also Dreadful, Terrible, Terror, etc.

just remember, any upgrade doesn't even have to trigger once to be worth its weight in gold

Xizor in X-wing is the crowning example. His ability lets him pawn off damage to his cronies, and almost never gets used because people know better than to shoot him. Does that make it garbage or does that mean that his ability just makes him immortal while his meatshields last? (hint: it's the later)

Haven is the same. Just one round of Haven can swing the squadron war irrevocably in your favor, but if your opponent doesn't ever engage it and you manage to hit his interceptors with your X-wings, then who's to say it didn't just win you the squadron war anyway?

And now we have Insidious at a measly 3 points. Even if he never triggers, he can be the big wagging finger of "nuh-huh" i.t.o of your opponent's positioning, similar to a VSD-1's front arc (cause god knows there's nothing easier to avoid than a VSD-1's black dice) only a lot cheaper

I've used insidious a couple times and decided from the getgo that it was just more of a 'threat' mechanic than something that will actually trigger. It's like the front of a vsd, it's best used as area control as opposed to getting all 6 dice to get a shot off because of the vsd's slow speed. I made sure my opponent understood what the insidious did and tried positioning it in such a way that the rebel fleet wanted to avoid making turns away from the insidious and letting it do it's job.

I found that insidious is hard to use and like in your experience, it's rare that you'll get a shot off using it's ability. I wasn't able to do it all, but I'm also pretty sure it helped me with board control because one of my opponents did comment about not wanting to make a turn because of how it would expose him.

I'm planning on using Insidious at an upcoming 5 round tourney.

My line of thinking is that its 3 points on what will be a 74 point ship. Over the course of 5 games I will have 30 rounds, 20-25 of which I'll probably be able to shoot in some capacity. This is a totally arbitrary metric, but that would mean each round I can shoot is worth about 3-4 points. If I can get it to trigger even once over the course of the tourney, I feel I've gotten my points worth out of it. I anticipate triggering it a few times.

I'm also viewing it as area denial as has been mentioned above. I'm also anticipating it will be useful if I face a fleet like CR90 swarm or something crazy like that.

Yes there are other cool things I could do for those 3 points, like a veteran captain, or upgrading a tie fighter to an interceptor, but right now black dice are rocking my socks off.

I'd think rather think black dice are rocking your opponents' socks off, no?

I can see a 400 point game where you have 2 Glad's, upgrading one to insidious when you already have demolisher might not be a bad idea. Actually, it might be a darn good idea.

I play 300 points with one Demolisher and one Insidious. Oh, and one VSD as well. It is a darn good idea if I can get Insidious to kick in a bit more often.