If we're at a tournament with ffg software, our ffg bye counts for less than it does if we're playing at a tourney that doesn't use ffg software? I hate to sound petulant here but that's really a bad situation on ffg. Will this be straightened out for nationals or are the byes a penalty now?

If your third-party software doesn't conform to the official tournament rules, don't use the software until it's updated. It's not FFG's responsibility to keep third-party software current.

Don't worry, I am sure 3rd party will match the FAQ soon enough.

The only thing that would stop it if well Disney releases the C&D orders and pulls the plug on all of them in which case.....

Don't even bother with tournament software.

We were using official FFG tournament software.

Don't worry, I am sure 3rd party will match the FAQ soon enough.

The only thing that would stop it if well Disney releases the C&D orders and pulls the plug on all of them in which case.....

Don't even bother with tournament software.

There's nothing the least bit copyrightable about a tournament system.

In a normal tournament a bye is only worth 150 only at regionals and events like that do you get a super bye which is worth a full 200

In a normal tournament a bye is only worth 150 only at regionals and events like that do you get a super bye which is worth a full 200

This was the Niles regionals. That being said, I can't actually find where it says how much a first round bye card is worth. This might just be a case of FFG software being ahead of third party software. Or it could be that the FFG software is tricky to use and the TOs made a slight mistake in setting up the tournament in the program and it didn't give the first round bye players the full 200 points. I dunno.

Also, thanks again Catachanninja for the ride down there, and congratulations on the Top 8!

Don't worry, I am sure 3rd party will match the FAQ soon enough.

The only thing that would stop it if well Disney releases the C&D orders and pulls the plug on all of them in which case.....

Don't even bother with tournament software.

There's nothing the least bit copyrightable about a tournament system.

Strictly speaking, true. However, Disney might be able to make the case that the specific mechanics edge into copyright infringement. They'd probably lose the case if it went to court, but most third party tournament systems aren't maintained by people who can afford to go toe-to-toe with Disney in court.

I believe the 200 points is in the tournament kit. The TO at Sacramento said it was 200 points.

A super bye is 200 pts

A super bye is 200 pts

The "super byes" at Chicago yesterday were only 150, I was told they were using ffg software. Hence the confusion. Is ffg that inept from a software standpoint that they totally failed to accommodate for it?

Byes being worth more MOV than a win does make sense in a swiss setting. First of all for the first bye chosen at random it ensures that the player is pared up with the highest ranking player. If that player isn't that skilled and was just lucky with a bye he would be dropped down in this round and placed with the rest of the mean ranked players. However if the player was good at X-wing having a bye and just a 100 points could hurt you in the strength of schedule so having an extra 50 MOV points makes up for that. Also worth mentioning that byes in the second round are more of a comeback mechanic allowing a player with 1 bad match up in the second round to still make the cut.

The bye in the 3rd round and after is more of a pity break by then as those byes are only given to someone that is literally 0-2 or worse. Once you go 0-2 you chances for making the cut are gone so normal byes past the 2nd round don't matter anymore for purposes of the top rankings.

The super bye also makes sense as store tournament winners should be considered a higher rank than the randomly selected odd player out. The 50 point above the bye aka 100 point over everyone else ensures that they are pared with other tournament winners as well as give them good MOV standings even if they lose their first match in the 2nd round.

The regular byes I'm fine with. The discussion here is that ffg software should be able to accommodate the super bye and right now we're being told it doesn't.

If your third-party software doesn't conform to the official tournament rules, don't use the software until it's updated. It's not FFG's responsibility to keep third-party software current.

You have it backwards. The FFG beta software does not follow the tournament rules. The 3rd party software does follow the rules correctly.

The X-wing tournament rules state that a first round super bye is worth 5 tournament points and 200 MoV. The FFG software only grants 150 MoV. Cryodex correctly grants 200.

The tournament rules (currently) also state that pairings are to be made according to MoV. Cryodex does this. The FFG software does not - it randomly pairs opponents that have the same number of tournament points. It has been this way for the entire Regionals season for anyone who uses the new FFG software. The upcoming tournament rules will change to reflect the FFG software method of random pairings. Cryodex will be updated before the new rules go live.

A super bye is 200 pts

The "super byes" at Chicago yesterday were only 150, I was told they were using ffg software. Hence the confusion. Is ffg that inept from a software standpoint that they totally failed to accommodate for it?

In a word, yes. The TOs at Chicago should have manually added 50 MoV to the appropriate players at the end of Swiss to properly follow the rules and fix the error from the FFG software. This is how it was handled at the Pennsylvania Regionals.

the fact that ffg cant quite figure out tournament software for a game that already has existing tournament software is a bit troubling. i tmakes you wonder what kind of resources they actually put into the game.

the fact that ffg cant quite figure out tournament software for a game that already has existing tournament software is a bit troubling. i tmakes you wonder what kind of resources they actually put into the game.

It is sort of tricky to make a support product especially if it is outside the expertise of the company. FFG makes board games and while they may be proficiency with using software for designing printing and modeling and making non computerized table top and collectible card games, that doesn't mean that FFG has the talent and resources for developing software. For a company to make a product that exists outside of their current capabilities they have two options.

1. Make a department from scratch buying or building new work-space and hiring new staff.
2. outsource the project to a contractor to develop the software for the company.

First let me address why they just can't take existing enthusiast made software and make it official and it mainly deals with our two favorite subjects. Legal Issues and Money. FFG cannot just endorse say Cryodex and make it their officially sanctioned tournament software because that opens them up to lawsuits from other creators of tournament software and from the makers of that software themselves. FFG will have to find a way to compensate those that make tournament software and because it was already given for free it could not be sold nor can compensation be based upon downloads. not to mentioned that this software was developed outside of FFg so as far as copyright laws go the patent to said software cannot just be handed over to the copyright office under FFG's name as strange as it sounds with all this bull$% over copyright pirates and patent trolls.

So now that that is out of the way lets take a look at the 2 options that FFG can do. Making a whole new department from scratch takes allot of time and money. Once you put all that work and finances in something you would want your investments to pay you back. However making a tournament software that only supports premier events will likely not sell that much. Many store owners would also use free 3rd party for unofficial tournaments that do not require FFG's software would simply use that over buying an official software from FFG. The only stores that would require it would be regionals and foreign national tournaments as Gencon and worlds is ran by FFG staff so the profit would never come close to the expense.

The second options would be contract work. However contractors come in all shapes and sizes and the quality of the work has often been along the lines of caveat emptor. So there is often safeguards, guarantees and insurance clauses in contracts to prevent one party from screwing over the other party. A beta phase is likely to be written in the contract. Still results have been mixed.

Cryodex engineer here...

First of all, I've spoken with FFG Legal and they have no problem with me existing. They did request a logo change early on and I complied with that.

My software follows the rules as defined in the document. Plain and simple. They are going through the process of getting theirs to be accurate. Fortunately for them, they can just change the rule book instead of fixing the software. I'm sure at some point the two will be aligned and we can all move forward.

People who suggested they buy Cryodex are a little mislead. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Cryodex is not web based and that seems to be a big goal of theirs. I did look into working for FFG in software development, but they do not allow remote employees and they simply could not afford to make this my primary job. The big problem I've had with them is their lack of willingness to collaborate with myself or other stakeholders in the community like the ListJuggler folks or other predominant TOs. When I created Cryodex, I sought help from anyone who would give it. The quick and detailed feedback allowed me to go from a fledgling piece of software to the tournament running powerhouse it is today. The other major mistake was releasing the beta for regionals instead of store championships. Regionals are so much bigger and more important. Mistakes in software can really shake things up and bother people. Smaller events would have made more sense and gotten more feedback.

Sorry, rant over...

So what's the future for Cryodex? I'll keep it up and running until a better option is widely available to the public. If TOME ever gets to that point, I'll happily retire and throw a party. Then onto whatever my next project is.

As for the new tournament rules, I will not be implementing them until closer to January. I feel like the current changes are in quite the state of fluctuation so I'll wait till things settle. Hard to follow a system that says "Here are the rules, except for our software, but we declare its rules legal just because." Cryodex is solid as is and has no "official" tournaments left to run this year.

A super bye is 200 pts

The "super byes" at Chicago yesterday were only 150, I was told they were using ffg software. Hence the confusion. Is ffg that inept from a software standpoint that they totally failed to accommodate for it?

In a word, yes. The TOs at Chicago should have manually added 50 MoV to the appropriate players at the end of Swiss to properly follow the rules and fix the error from the FFG software. This is how it was handled at the Pennsylvania Regionals.

Only after I brought it up though. And apparently I was really the only one affected by it, bringing me from 19th to 15th due to that 50 MoV.

Cryodex engineer here...

First of all, I've spoken with FFG Legal and they have no problem with me existing. They did request a logo change early on and I complied with that.

My software follows the rules as defined in the document. Plain and simple. They are going through the process of getting theirs to be accurate. Fortunately for them, they can just change the rule book instead of fixing the software. I'm sure at some point the two will be aligned and we can all move forward.

People who suggested they buy Cryodex are a little mislead. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Cryodex is not web based and that seems to be a big goal of theirs. I did look into working for FFG in software development, but they do not allow remote employees and they simply could not afford to make this my primary job. The big problem I've had with them is their lack of willingness to collaborate with myself or other stakeholders in the community like the ListJuggler folks or other predominant TOs. When I created Cryodex, I sought help from anyone who would give it. The quick and detailed feedback allowed me to go from a fledgling piece of software to the tournament running powerhouse it is today. The other major mistake was releasing the beta for regionals instead of store championships. Regionals are so much bigger and more important. Mistakes in software can really shake things up and bother people. Smaller events would have made more sense and gotten more feedback.

Sorry, rant over...

So what's the future for Cryodex? I'll keep it up and running until a better option is widely available to the public. If TOME ever gets to that point, I'll happily retire and throw a party. Then onto whatever my next project is.

As for the new tournament rules, I will not be implementing them until closer to January. I feel like the current changes are in quite the state of fluctuation so I'll wait till things settle. Hard to follow a system that says "Here are the rules, except for our software, but we declare its rules legal just because." Cryodex is solid as is and has no "official" tournaments left to run this year.

When you refer to the term stakeholders are you referring to Shareholders or to just unofficial site management? I am sure that FFG should be content to letting cryodex still exist, it doesn't make sense to take it down especially with TOME still in the beta state (I am still wondering why X-wing companion and squad builder apps got taken down).

Stakeholder is an industry term for anyone effected by the software. I was referring to TOs, ListJuggler, MajorJuggler, or anyone else involved in the greater community. Hope that makes sense.

Don't worry, I am sure 3rd party will match the FAQ soon enough.

The only thing that would stop it if well Disney releases the C&D orders and pulls the plug on all of them in which case.....

Don't even bother with tournament software.

There's nothing the least bit copyrightable about a tournament system.

Indeed. If the issue is using the word Star Wars or X-Wing somewhere in the product, they could just call it "Spaceboats," or something and it would be quite legit.

If we're at a tournament with ffg software, our ffg bye counts for less than it does if we're playing at a tourney that doesn't use ffg software? I hate to sound petulant here but that's really a bad situation on ffg. Will this be straightened out for nationals or are the byes a penalty now?

It's been pointed out that I misread this before making my reply to your post. I apologize.