And yes, you measure from card inserts, not the plastic base in armada.

It's a bit more subtle. When targeting a hull zone on a ship, you measure to the cardboard. When targeting a squadron you measure to the plastic (do not include the slider).

Lastly when measuring to a ship (for an effect like Liea) you include the plastic frame, but not the dials.

yeah I see what you mean...

I used LOS because it functions similarly and thought it might help people understand what's new--that the LOS component that negates a shot (drawing lines through non defending hull zones) would help clarify things. Yet since LOS is yellow dot to yellow dot, and my using the same wording may cause more confusion than help.

I'm not sure why they added this to the range calculation. Seems like it's more fiddly and doesn't, at least in my view, add to or better the game in any tangible way.

Well it does add, because some guy could measure from the edge of his cardboard to the arc close to the center of the cardboard of the defending ship (hence passing through a defending hullzone) and get into close or medium range, while if he measured to the edge of the cardboard he would be one range further.

I feel the majority of players already played like the FAQ mentionned, but some rules lawyers might have tried to take advantage of being able to measure range through a defending hull zone

Rules lawyers? This is an Errata, not a clarification. If you were already adhering to this rule, you were playing wrong. If you added a new rule before it was in the RRG/FAQ, that was a house rule.

There is nothing obvious about measuring Range between components not allowing for a crossing line. LoS was already being checked between different points.

For the record there is Still confusion out there on how to measure range, so "majority of players" may be a stretch.. Just this morning there was a clarification video that got it wrong and apparently much of Portland still plays wrong.

It's the age old debate of RAW versus RAI

Now the real question is with these new rules :

1) My Corvette is next to a Gladiator Star Destroyer on his left side, facing it as a 45° angle.

2) The Gladiator's left and rear hull zones are in the front arc of the Corvette.

3) I can trace line of sight with the yellow dots to both the yellow dots of these hull zones.

4) The closest point of the Demolisher's rear hull zone is on the line that separate the rear from the left hull zone.

Does that mean that in the end, I don't have line of sight to the rear hull zone ?

@MoffZen. Without a picture it is hard to say. You may or may not depending on the exact positions.

That said this is not effected by the new rules. It sounds like in any case you are drawing your range line to the corner of the Glad, which would make the port or aft arcs on the glad valid. LoS test between the yellow dots has not changed, you have a valid target so long as the yellow dot test does not cross another hull zone on the Glad.

For the record, I am a RAW guy, so long as a rule is not self contradictory. In this case I don't see a reason to fall back on RAI. Either way, it is fixed.

I'll try to post a picture later today, but technically, I measure range from the shortest distance and that distance is not the corner of the Glad and goes through a defending hull zone, then I'm unable to shoot it even though the corner is in my front arc and I can draw line of sight to the yellow dot.

The rules specifically say that the shortest distance to the hullzone (not to the edge of the cardboard) is taken to determine range. In the case I'm presenting, it goes through a defensing hullzone even though I could measure to the corner of the Glad. But I can't because the closest to closest point isn't the Glad corner, so I'm unable to fire.

The RAW are paramount, but in this case you were RAIing by saying I could draw line of sight to the corner (we're all a mix of RAW and RAI anyways, so no point arguing between the two ).

I'll post a pic but I'm genuinely interested in seeing whether or not I can shoot that rear arc. Expect an edit in an hour or so.

after reading this thread, i'm fuzzy.

All 3 conditions have to be met for valid target, right?

1. target hull zone must be in arc.

2. target hull zone must be in LOS.

3. target hull zone closest-to-closest range must not cross a defending arc.

if any above are not met, you must choose different target and try again. right??

Yep, pretty much

after reading this thread, i'm fuzzy.

All 3 conditions have to be met for valid target, right?

1. target hull zone must be in arc.

2. target hull zone must be in LOS.

3. target hull zone closest-to-closest range must not cross a defending arc.

if any above are not met, you must choose different target and try again. right??

Right

@Moffzen. I had thought about this possibility, but couldn't think of an aggrangment where it would be an issue. I need to put the pieces on the table and check it out.

Did I mention that I don't like the new rule . It doesn't solve an issue and leads to more complexity. To be honest, each FAQ has only made it more complex. I prefer the original.

If I were playing you, I'd give you the shot. But in a tourney RAW is RAW.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I think that they should simply add : Range is measured from the the closest point on your hullzone to the closest point on the defending hull zone that does not cross another hull zone. Voilà, fixed that for everyone

Here's the picture that shows this case :

You might not see it clearly due to the angle (otherwise there was a nasty shadow), but in this picture :

1) The Rear of the GSD is in the front arc of the Vette

2) I can draw yellow to yellow line of sight from the front of the Vette to the rear of the GSD

3) However the shortest distance between the GSD and the Vette is through the left hull zone.

So that shot is illegal basically ^^

I agree that it's going to be rare that such a case will occur, but it's to keep in mind the fact that it does happen

It's shots like that which lead me to the conclusion that it just doesn't add much to the game. Yeah you can hit the side arc, but intuitively it feels wrong that you can't also hit the rear.

I'm with intsy's rule on this I don't get the commotion. if I understand this debate correctly people were drawing range to the non target hull zone, since people didn't think LOS was necessary for defining range? Is that what people think changed?

This looks valid to me, but it may be the pic. The closest point on the CR90 front hull zone to the VSD rear hull zone is were the firing arc line meets the edge of the cardboard base. As far as I can tell the arc line are not part of either hull zone, so this would not overlap the port VSD arc.

Still there may be cases that this is a question.

I'm with intsy's rule on this I don't get the commotion. if I understand this debate correctly people were drawing range to the non target hull zone, since people didn't think LOS was necessary for defining range? Is that what people think changed?

No. They were drawing range to the target zone, but the line could cross over a different zone on the defender. See the pic on the first page of the 1.1 FAQ.

I've been looking at this and I see the difference with the new bullet. My question is do you need to measure range perpendicular to the base of the target ship like in the FAQ. In the FAQ picture it looks like if you sweep the ruler clockwise to the edge of the side arc it looks like it will actually be closer on the range ruler. It states "The Rebel player must measure range to the closest point of the Victory's rear hull zone that is within the attacking firing arc."

The example by MoffZen looks a little closer in that if you move the range ruler to the edge of the defenders arc it may actually be further, but it's still difficult to tell for sure.

The shortest distance to the base will always be perpendicular but to a given hull zone may not be. The FAQ picture doesn't look like it follows the rule as written.