Here let's make it simple for people to understand. Cup your hands in the shape of the arc you are using, that is your angle of fire. You can't shoot beyond those lines.
FAQ Question with new Line of Sight rules
I have always played it that way. It makes sense. That is how Firestorm Armada, Battle Fleet Gothic, and the like run things. I don't see how people thought that you could shoot outside of that arc. . . Hell even Warhammer 40k's vehicle rules did that
This is only interesting to me because I am working on a player aid that I want to be as accurate as possible. This change means I need to go back and change this part. (It is harder then it sounds when you need it to all fit on an standard playing card).
Pretty sure the very first FAQ changed measuring out of arc to measuring in arc.
This was changed a long time ago.
A while ago the rules forumites had settled on being able to measure out of arc (long discussions were had regarding RAW) and the very first FAQ changed this so range was measured in arc.
Everyone seemed to accept this and move on as most of us kinda assumed measuring range outside or arc seem led retry illogical anyway...
Edited by DWRRIn fact here is the (sometime quite heated) thread in question...
And it was 9th May when the first FAQ came out and gave us the answer.
In fact here is the (sometime quite heated) thread in question...
And it was 9th May when the first FAQ came out and gave us the answer.
In any case this is is exactly why I am making a player aid. This is as concise/complete as I have gotten:
Arc and Range: Using the Range Ruler, measure a line between the attacker and defender. If attacking from a hull zone, this line is drawn within that firing arc (include width of the firing arc lines). Measure the shortest line between hull zone’s cardboard base, or squadron’s plastic base.
If a hull zone is defending, this line must not cross over any other hull zone on the defender.
Line of Sight: Trace a line between the attacker and defender; connecting the yellow targeting point of the hull zone, or the closest point of a squadron base. This line must not cross any other hull zone on the defending ship. If this line crosses an obstacle or the hull zone of a ship other than the attacker and defender, the attack is obstructed and the attacker removes one dice from the attack pool before rolling.
Are there cases where you can have a shot with this new measure in arc thing, but not the LOS check work?
Are there cases where you can have a shot with this new measure in arc thing, but not the LOS check work?
Yes, though a bit less often. For example if the defending ship is in front of you, with the zone you want to attack at a very steep angle. LoS check is also still needed to check for obstacles.
So this argument needs visual aids. Here have a video.
Here, I explained it with pictures:
http://xwingtactics.blogspot.com/2015/07/faq-tournament-rules-update-72415.html
Thanks for those, I was getting confused by the new wording in the FAQ but I realise now it's because I never would have considered that section as "in arc" in the first place, the X-Wing player in me tends to always think about the edge of the cardboard.
So this argument needs visual aids. Here have a video.
I use to draw LoS through my arcs all the time as long as the arc went through my target hull zone and I had LoS it was a shot from there I measure closest point of my arc to the closest point of their arc.
What am I missing?
Sorry guys, still confused here. Can someone tell me what scenario was possible in the pre-FAQ that is no longer possible now?
Even if LoS, Range, and Arc were different entities before, they still had to interact with each other for the shot to be valid. If you had LoS and Range but no Arc, the shot is no-go. If you had Range and Arc but no LoS, no shot. How is that confusing?
LOS p.7 RRG bullet 4 according to the FAQ:
“If line of sight or attack range is traced through a hull zone on the defender that is not the defending zone, the attacker does not have line of sight and must choose another target.”
Only the phrase "or attack range" has been added.
Measure Firing Arc and Range, p.7 RRG:
"To measure a hull zone’s firing arc, use the range ruler to extend the firing arc lines that are printed on the ship token around that hull zone. If a portion of any component is inside the area between those extended firing arc lines, that component is inside the firing arc."
So you extend the arc printed on the cardboard to check if your target hull zone is in your firing arc.
"To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the closest point of the attacking hull zone. To measure attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the defending hull zone"
Then you measure the closest points between the attacking hull zone and defending hull zone inside the arc to determine range.
Why would you treat Arc and Range separate? "I'll measure Arc, but measure Range OUTSIDE of the Arc".... then WTH did you measure Arc for? If you measured the front Arc but your Range is on the Left of your front Arc, then you want to take a shot from the LEFT hull zone, not the front hull zone.
So to make an attack, all three things must be true:
1. Do you have unobstructed LoS to the defending hull zone? If yes, go to step 2, if no, pick another target/hull zone.
2. Do you have the target/hull zone in arc? If yes, go to step 3, if no, pick another target/hull zone.
3. What is the range from the closest point of the attacking hull zone to the closest point of the defending hull zone that is in arc? Collect the appropriate colored dice depending on range band.
So again, can someone tell me how the old rules were broken? The rules didn't confuse me at all.... what confuses me is how it confuses other people! 
I'm not contradicting myself. I say the left zone is obstructing...
I later say "If we follow your logic..." which is to say the logic is broken, and I give an example of that.
You contradicted yourself. You say the left zone is "obstructing" but then later said the hull zones have line of sight to each other.
@Intys Rules. You have it right. But I was fine with the old method. Part of the hull zone or squad still had to be in arc, but the measurement was made between the closest point. This may not have given a slight range boost, but it was faster to measure to a fixed point as opposed to the abstract point that we measure now. The old method left less room for arguments. Keep in mind that LoS is still does not consider arc.
Either way, the rules are the rules.
No, you are reading something in the old rules that isn't there.
The target has to be in arc AND the measurement is to be made between the closest points within the arc. That meant that closest-to-closest in terms of ship base might be close range but the attack has to be made at medium range because closest-to-closest in terms of within the firing arc is medium range.
Why do you think you measure LoS and Firing Arc only to ignore them during Range measurement?
We can argue about that all day. You interpret something in the old rules that I don't. Something is unclear, and that is why the FAQ addressed it. On the bright side the current rules are clear.
Sorry, not meant to have a go at you, but wanting to understand your point (and playing the "other side") so if I come across this situation, I know where it's coming from and how to point out the corrections.
Still wanting to know what part of the rules made you do things the way you used to do, if you'd care to point that out?
I read the original rules as three separate tests. All of which need to be valid to make the attack. There are separate rules for each test, and the test for Range said closest point on the hull zone, with no mention of arc. You could imply or infer additional limits on this measurement, but they weren't actually listed.
And this felt consistent since LoS test also did not need to be within arc.
As I said, you still tesed for LoS and Arc so the target still needed to be in arc, the only difference was trading a boost in range for easier corner to corner measurements.
The 1.1 FAQ added the cross over rule, which also just complicates things in my mind since it just feels like a second contradicting LoS test.
Sorry guys, still confused here. Can someone tell me what scenario was possible in the pre-FAQ that is no longer possible now?
In the old rules, when determining the shortest point to the shortest point for range, it didn't matter if that measurement crossed a non defending hull zone. It was simply a range issue, not a Line of Sight question.
Now, LOS is included in the range calculation as well.
So when looking at the picture included in the FAQ, yellow dot on the corvette to yellow dot on the destroyer, line of sight from the front of the corvette to the rear of vsd is good (not osbstructed, not crossing any non defending hull zones). At this point, to determine range you trace the shortest line from the attacking hull zone to the defending hull zone and ignored whether or not it crossed non targeted hull zones per the rules prior to the FAQ, gathered the appropriate dice and took your shot.
Now, while doing the range calculation, line of sight is included in the range determination where it was not previously. All that was needed previously for range was the shortest distance. No concerns for crossing non defending hull zones for that range calculation.
Edited by ReirycDon't get confused with LoS and Range. While Range is now tested with similar restrictions to LoS, it is a different test. Strictly speaking LoS is between the yellow dots (or closest point on a squad).
With the new rule, the range measurement is made to the closest point on the defending hull zone or squadron that is within the firing arc. This line can not cross any hull zone on the defender other than the target zone (basically this line needs to meet the defending hull zone along the outer edge of the cardboard base).
I'm not confused... what they did was to add that if range is traced through a defending hull zone, its now not a valid shot.
Original rules:
If line of sight is traced through a hull zone on the
defender that is not the defending zone, the attacker does
not have line of sight and must choose another target.
Faq:
The fourth bullet point of this entry should read:
“If line of sight or attack range is traced through a hull zone on
the defender that is not the defending zone, the attacker does
not have line of sight and must choose another target.”
The part in bold is the new addition.
Below was all that was needed for range from ship to ship in Measuring Firing Arc and Range, RRg pg 7. It didn't matter if range measurements crossed non defending hull zones (ie LOS issues) for the range measurement.
To measure attack range from a ship, measure from the
closest point of the attacking hull zone. To measure
attack range to a ship, measure to the closest point of the
defending hull zone.
They added this to Measuring Firing Arc and Range:
This entry should include the following paragraph:
“If attack range is measured through a hull zone on the defender
that is not the defending hull zone, the attacker does not have
line of sight and must choose another target.”
That paragraph now includes an LOS component to range that was not there before (ie crossing a non defending hull zone).
Go look at the picture on the FAQ. That was a valid shot prior to the above addition. The corvette has LOS (yellow dot to yellow dot). The corvette has range to the defending hull zone in arc. What's different now is that the defending hull zone in arc, when measuring range from shortest point to shortest point in arc, crosses a non defending hull zone(thus LOS came into effect). That's what makes it not a viable shot now.
Sorry, I see that you are not confused. I just want to make sure that others are also clear. While Range uses an aspect the the LoS rule, it is a separate test and calling this aspect of the Range test LoS may lead to confusion.
It's messy that they added this to the LoS section of the rules.
yeah I see what you mean...
I used LOS because it functions similarly and thought it might help people understand what's new--that the LOS component that negates a shot (drawing lines through non defending hull zones) would help clarify things. Yet since LOS is yellow dot to yellow dot, and my using the same wording may cause more confusion than help. 
I'm not sure why they added this to the range calculation. Seems like it's more fiddly and doesn't, at least in my view, add to or better the game in any tangible way.
OK, I'm confused (and feeling stupid as a result). So Line of Sight is determining that the closest point, within arc, doesn't go through the line of another hull zone, is that right? And that line we're drawing is also the one we use to measure range, obviously. What are the yellow dots for then? I thought the line from the arc could cross the zone boundaries, provided the line between the dots didn't, now I don't know what the dots do.
Also: so measuring is between the card inserts, not the plastic bases? Is that the case for X-Wing as well? If so, everyone I know plays it wrong!
Line of sight is yellow dot to yellow dot.
A new rule in the newly released faq however added that when measuring range, you can't cross a non defending hull zone on the target ship(which, consequently is the same limitation when measuring Los) In order to measure range, you have to measure the shortest distance from the firing hull zone to the target hull zone within the firing hull zones arc.
Edited by Reiryc