I don't see how a ruling on tactician has anything to do with whether FFG wants to adhere to the definition of an attack or not with TLT. Step 1 of an attack is to declare a defender. TLT allows you to make two ATTACKS. Therefore, you must declare two defenders, and R3-A2 can double stress. Also of point - the two attacks can be done on different people. But this is RAW... who knows what the RAI is until a W7 FAQ clears it up.

This has already been confirmed by the FFG. TLT only declares the target one time and you can only attack 1 target with it, not two. So with the title it deals 2 stress, without it deals 1.

Where was it confirmed?

Ya Cluster Missiles has the same wording as TLT card text and CM's FAQ treats it as two separate against the same target.

May need a rewording in next update but this seems to imply skipping the Declare Target step and moving on to Roll Attack Dice. Since R3-A2 triggers on the Declare step I'd say it can only activate once (twice on BTL Y-wings).

Conversely Tactician triggers after the attack so both separate attacks from Cluster Missiles can trigger a Tactician, similarly both TLT attacks on a Tactician + TLT equipped K-wing.

I don't see how a ruling on tactician has anything to do with whether FFG wants to adhere to the definition of an attack or not with TLT. Step 1 of an attack is to declare a defender. TLT allows you to make two ATTACKS. Therefore, you must declare two defenders, and R3-A2 can double stress. Also of point - the two attacks can be done on different people. But this is RAW... who knows what the RAI is until a W7 FAQ clears it up.

This has already been confirmed by the FFG. TLT only declares the target one time and you can only attack 1 target with it, not two. So with the title it deals 2 stress, without it deals 1.

Where was it confirmed?

This exact discussion came up on the reddit and a developer was emailed.

Ya Cluster Missiles has the same wording as TLT card text and CM's FAQ treats it as two separate against the same target.

May need a rewording in next update but this seems to imply skipping the Declare Target step and moving on to Roll Attack Dice. Since R3-A2 triggers on the Declare step I'd say it can only activate once (twice on BTL Y-wings).

Conversely Tactician triggers after the attack so both separate attacks from Cluster Missiles can trigger a Tactician, similarly both TLT attacks on a Tactician + TLT equipped K-wing.

This is what was said by the developer.

sad

truth be told, I couldn't care less about the triple stress. I just wanted a TLT r3-a2 that could double stress and contribute to the offense while it lumbered back around to bring its R3-a2 to bear again (can't k-turn the bugger, after all)

True, but if triple stress at range 2 is OP, then surely triple stress at range 2 AND 3 is OP...

For TLT and Tactician what is the ruling with Tactician and Cluster missiles?

If the ruling is that Cluster missiles doing 2 attacks which trigger the tactician each attack then of course 2 stress will be given out.

Seems like it's way simpler to slap "limited" on a single card than to go changing a few different cards- many of which are one use.

I think the only ship that can run the combo is currently the firespray, and it's such a corner case that it's never been brought up before.

and the YT-2400 and the unique pilots of the YT-1300, but they just don't use that missile slot.

It was triple stress in a 180 degree arc that was nerfed. Double stress in normal arc at range 2-3 is fine, especially on a hog that maneuvers like a hog.

at the risk of bringing that unpleasantness up again,

r3-A2 is range 1-2 double stress with ICT, range 2-3 double stress with TLT (both bearing titles)

Tactician is only ever range 2, and the YV-666 maneuvers far worse than a Y (especially since it's got such a fat ass; it'll clip obstacles like it's trying to win a prize)

True, but if triple stress at range 2 is OP, then surely triple stress at range 2 AND 3 is OP...

Yes, when you skip the "stress-yourself-three-times-with-a-90-degrees-front-arc-and-the-worst-greens-in-the-game" part it might seem that way.

I don't see how a ruling on tactician has anything to do with whether FFG wants to adhere to the definition of an attack or not with TLT. Step 1 of an attack is to declare a defender. TLT allows you to make two ATTACKS. Therefore, you must declare two defenders, and R3-A2 can double stress. Also of point - the two attacks can be done on different people. But this is RAW... who knows what the RAI is until a W7 FAQ clears it up.

This has already been confirmed by the FFG. TLT only declares the target one time and you can only attack 1 target with it, not two. So with the title it deals 2 stress, without it deals 1.

Where was it confirmed?

This exact discussion came up on the reddit and a developer was emailed.

Ya Cluster Missiles has the same wording as TLT card text and CM's FAQ treats it as two separate against the same target.

May need a rewording in next update but this seems to imply skipping the Declare Target step and moving on to Roll Attack Dice. Since R3-A2 triggers on the Declare step I'd say it can only activate once (twice on BTL Y-wings).

Conversely Tactician triggers after the attack so both separate attacks from Cluster Missiles can trigger a Tactician, similarly both TLT attacks on a Tactician + TLT equipped K-wing.

This is what was said by the developer.

Horton is going to be so pissed...

Currently the wording on these cards do not support this verdict. Preforming an attack includes declaring a target, preforming an attack twice requires you to declare a target twice.

The "against the same target" part of the Cluster Missiles FAQ, while listed under Card Clarifications, is a rules change/Errata. Originally you where able to attack 2 different ships as long as you had a TL on both (Weapons Engineer).

Horton shouldn't care; he's not really the ideal stressbot (simply too expensive; goldie is far more efficient)

just having TLTs will make him happy, so much so that you could just slap R4-d6 on him (4 HLC shots to kill this fat bastard) and call it a day

So would a hwk with tactician and tlt give 1 stress or 2? Also are you able to attack two different targets with the tlt?

Tacticians being limited is one of the best things FFG has done lately.

Stress builds are BORING. Still amusing how many folks want to complain about diversity then run a triple tactician list. Then whine about FFG being legitimately concerned about that affect on the game.

It has been pointed out you can run multiple tacticians spread across you fleet of ships. Run a stress build, I do occasionally for variety. But lets not pretend that facing stress builds or watching a game were stress builds are being played is fun or entertaining.

Tacticians being limited is one of the best things FFG has done lately.

Stress builds are BORING. Still amusing how many folks want to complain about diversity then run a triple tactician list. Then whine about FFG being legitimately concerned about that affect on the game.

It has been pointed out you can run multiple tacticians spread across you fleet of ships. Run a stress build, I do occasionally for variety. But lets not pretend that facing stress builds or watching a game were stress builds are being played is fun or entertaining.

I don't know about "BORING." They're a necessary evil in a world filled with PTL Brotbots, Superdashes, and Soontirs. I would argue the meta would be more boring without stress builds.

Personally I find R3A2 + title to be the stress mechanic that pushes it over the edge. Having multiple tacticians on one ship (especially the YV with it's huge arc) would have created a similar issue and isn't unique per list.

Limited tactician isn't that overpowered even when spammed in my opinion.

So would a hwk with tactician and tlt give 1 stress or 2? Also are you able to attack two different targets with the tlt?

2 stress, as Tactician triggers after an attack. Must attack the same target, since the Declare target step only occurs once.

Tacticians being limited is one of the best things FFG has done lately.

Stress builds are BORING. Still amusing how many folks want to complain about diversity then run a triple tactician list. Then whine about FFG being legitimately concerned about that affect on the game.

It has been pointed out you can run multiple tacticians spread across you fleet of ships. Run a stress build, I do occasionally for variety. But lets not pretend that facing stress builds or watching a game were stress builds are being played is fun or entertaining.

I've never felt it to be boring to either play or play against. If I'm flying it, then I'm working to get my Tactician ship a firing arc. Those ships generally can't reposition well after movement. When flying Panic Attack, I have to consider whether it's better to spread out and set up a wide net of Range 2 arcs, or try to concentrate everything so that I land multiple on a single target.

If I'm flying against it, then I have to consider how that build can affect my list. If I'm flying Soontir or IG88, then I have to be very careful about the kind of shots I present, and have an escape plan in mind in the event that I get dealt an extra stress. I have to consider whether I really want to risk using something like PTL, as a second stress token could leave me locked down until I'm destroyed.

Seems pretty apparent that FFG doesn't want stress-Gatling guns to be a thing.

What ruling where?

I talked with Alex about this specifically at Gencon (along with can Tycho act after hitting a Debris, which the answer is yes btw), and he said he hasn't made his mind up yet.

True, but if triple stress at range 2 is OP, then surely triple stress at range 2 AND 3 is OP...

Yes, when you skip the "stress-yourself-three-times-with-a-90-degrees-front-arc-and-the-worst-greens-in-the-game" part it might seem that way.

I don't see how a ruling on tactician has anything to do with whether FFG wants to adhere to the definition of an attack or not with TLT. Step 1 of an attack is to declare a defender. TLT allows you to make two ATTACKS. Therefore, you must declare two defenders, and R3-A2 can double stress. Also of point - the two attacks can be done on different people. But this is RAW... who knows what the RAI is until a W7 FAQ clears it up.

This has already been confirmed by the FFG. TLT only declares the target one time and you can only attack 1 target with it, not two. So with the title it deals 2 stress, without it deals 1.

Where was it confirmed?

This exact discussion came up on the reddit and a developer was emailed.

Ya Cluster Missiles has the same wording as TLT card text and CM's FAQ treats it as two separate against the same target.

May need a rewording in next update but this seems to imply skipping the Declare Target step and moving on to Roll Attack Dice. Since R3-A2 triggers on the Declare step I'd say it can only activate once (twice on BTL Y-wings).

Conversely Tactician triggers after the attack so both separate attacks from Cluster Missiles can trigger a Tactician, similarly both TLT attacks on a Tactician + TLT equipped K-wing.

This is what was said by the developer.

Horton is going to be so pissed...

Currently the wording on these cards do not support this verdict. Preforming an attack includes declaring a target, preforming an attack twice requires you to declare a target twice.

The "against the same target" part of the Cluster Missiles FAQ, while listed under Card Clarifications, is a rules change/Errata. Originally you where able to attack 2 different ships as long as you had a TL on both (Weapons Engineer).

Makes you think.