A series of questions seeking your input on the Force Move ability:

How do you interpret the power? "The user may spend [1 light side pip] to move one object of silhouette 0 that is within short range up to his maximum range. The default maximum range is short range."

1. The character may only ever move objects that start within short range, regardless of range upgrades, or range upgrades allow the user to affect objects that start farther than short range.

2. A character may move objects only within the maximum range with respect to the user, or with respect to the object (i.e. moving an object within short range of the user to another location within short range or the user, or being able to move the object short range from the object's original location, say into medium range from the user).

3. Does the item moved using the control upgrade to attack affect the attack? Is there a difference between throwing the Star Wars equivalent of toilet paper and a throwing knife?

4. For using the control upgrade to attack: "This attack follows all the rules for ranged attacks, such as ranged defense and aiming." Does this mean that a character must make a ranged attack roll in addition to the discipline check to move the object? If not, does range affect the difficulty? If range affects the difficulty (whether for the discipline roll or a separate ranged attack roll), is it the range between the user and the target, or the object and the target? What characteristic and skill does one use if there is call for a separate attack roll?

Thanks for your time.

Egads! Not another one! Run!!!

1. It's been unofficially errata'd by the game designer that starting move range extends with Move upgrades. The change may end up showing up in the final release for FaD. But per RAW in EotE/AoR/beta FaD, the object always has to start in Short range.

2. Maximum range is based around the user itself. So, for instance, a user can take an object from the edge of Short range in front of him to the edge of Short range behind him, not to move it to it to the edge of Short range of the object which could take it to Medium range from the user.

3. Per RAW, there is no difference. Though the GM might want to disallow overly soft things causing anything more than a distraction. You can decide with the GM if you want to allow speed increases, and what sort of bonuses to damage/criticals and penalties to the skill check should be applied.

4. There's a bit of different ways to handle this. I personally do the opposed checks separately from the attack roll. I base the range difficulty of the attack on distance from a player. Otherwise somebody at extreme range from the user could potentially be pelted by a number of objects in Short Range from them with little issue.

I got it.

1&2) The devs clarified its the the whole thing. You can start and/or end the move out to the max range.

3)Raw, no. You're just lobbing the object, you don't have sufficient control to actually use the object in sany meaningful way beyond what the roll results generate. Of course it's all up to the GM at the end.

4) Its only a discipline check as outlined, but you include the bonus and setbacks from any defenses or aim maneuvers as if it were a ranged attack.

Edit: Dang I'm getting laggy... Lathrop got it

Thanks for the responses. I forgot one more that I had:

Has anyone had any problems with players force moving enemies themselves into the air and dropping them? A three pip move with range and magnitude and one strength upgrade could instantly kill a number of opponents, per RAW.

Has anyone had any problems with players force moving enemies themselves into the air and dropping them? A three pip move with range and magnitude and one strength upgrade could instantly kill a number of opponents, per RAW.

Yup, that’s an issue. Per RAW, you can only do Silhouette*10 damage to each person, so if you’re throwing one Sil 1 person into another Sil 1 person, then they each take 10 points of damage, minus Soak, etc…. But if you throw a speederbike at someone, then they would take 20 points of damage. And so on.

Dropping them is a little different, as the damage has to correlate to how far they fall. If it’s just straight up and down in the same place, then that range is gated by the space available, how many upgrades the Force user has bought, and how many pips they roll/use. If you were to push them off a cliff or over a deep hole and then they were dropped, that would depend on how far down it is to the ground where they go splat.

The reason that 2P51 said “Run!!” is that there are a whole host of threads on this subject, if you search the forums. Try using the tiny little “Search” box at the very top of this page.

Has anyone had any problems with players force moving enemies themselves into the air and dropping them? A three pip move with range and magnitude and one strength upgrade could instantly kill a number of opponents, per RAW.

Well, the obvious solution would be "Congrats on dropping those four stormtroopers to their deaths in the bottomless pit. Enjoy your . . . .[calculates numbers] 45 Conflict!"

Has anyone had any problems with players force moving enemies themselves into the air and dropping them? A three pip move with range and magnitude and one strength upgrade could instantly kill a number of opponents, per RAW.

Well, the obvious solution would be "Congrats on dropping those four stormtroopers to their deaths in the bottomless pit. Enjoy your . . . .[calculates numbers] 45 Conflict!"

In programming we call this a kludge. It's when the design doesn't reflect the behaviour you want, so you have to resort to a clumsy patch. If I didn't have my own Move tree, or the player really wanted to use the default one, I'd just have a discussion with them about flavour. Conflict should be irrelevant to the flavour of using Move.

I wish the designers had rethought it. They nailed everything else, but there's a reason this power, and no other, gets such consistent attention.

...

The reason that 2P51 said “Run!!” is that there are a whole host of threads on this subject, if you search the forums. Try using the tiny little “Search” box at the very top of this page.

You have shown me the error of my ways. Thanks.

Has anyone had any problems with players force moving enemies themselves into the air and dropping them? A three pip move with range and magnitude and one strength upgrade could instantly kill a number of opponents, per RAW.

Well, the obvious solution would be "Congrats on dropping those four stormtroopers to their deaths in the bottomless pit. Enjoy your . . . .[calculates numbers] 45 Conflict!"

Questions of the morality of the method of killing aside, let me clarify: I simply meant in terms of the balance of the rules. As far as I can tell force moving enemies straight into the air and dropping them for falling damage seems to be one of the most effective methods for a combative solution, and at a relatively low experience point cost.

Has anyone had any problems with players force moving enemies themselves into the air and dropping them? A three pip move with range and magnitude and one strength upgrade could instantly kill a number of opponents, per RAW.

Well, the obvious solution would be "Congrats on dropping those four stormtroopers to their deaths in the bottomless pit. Enjoy your . . . .[calculates numbers] 45 Conflict!"

In programming we call this a kludge. It's when the design doesn't reflect the behaviour you want, so you have to resort to a clumsy patch. If I didn't have my own Move tree, or the player really wanted to use the default one, I'd just have a discussion with them about flavour. Conflict should be irrelevant to the flavour of using Move.

I wish the designers had rethought it. They nailed everything else, but there's a reason this power, and no other, gets such consistent attention.

Would you be willing to share your own move tree? I'd definitely be interested in seeing it.

Would you be willing to share your own move tree? I'd definitely be interested in seeing it.

It’s already posted in one of the other threads in the “Game Masters” sub-forum.

You might find it, if you used the “search” function. ;)

Seriously, look for the words “Force Move - Canon Edition”. That will turn it up, or a link to it.

If you just look up the words “move” and “canon”, that will get you a few more hits, some of which you might want to also read. But that should also turn up at least a link to the post in question.

Would you be willing to share your own move tree? I'd definitely be interested in seeing it.

Sent a PM...