I saw an argument over a custom card on BGG and I am curious to hear the wide opinion about it.

So, there is a spirit ally card with a cost of 3, 1 willpower, 1 attack, 2 defense and 3 health. It also has a response, that gets an engaged enemy -2 attack until the end of the round after the ally enters play.

The attacker claims that the card is too weak for the cost of 3, has too low stats and a situational ability.

The defender claims that the card might even be too good for its cost, as there is no decent defensers among the spirit allies, especially for that cost.

Lets say a card like that is being released with the next AP. Would you consider it useful? Would you consider including it into a deck? Which deck? Etc.

Compare to Warden of Helm's Deep (3 cost, leadership): this one has one less defense but 1 more HP; no sentinel but a useful ability; this ally is in spirit.

I would say it's probably a bit strong to be in spirit, but not overwhelmingly so. At least, this is what I think at first glance.

The stats are the same as the Spirit ally Dwalin, who also costs 3. A difference is that Dwalin has a situational effects that might reduce his cost by 2 resources.

Emery is another Spirit ally with similar stats, but 1 less hit point.

I do not think the custom card you have described is too weak for the cost. I'm a novice player, but it sounds pretty good to me - perhaps even a little overpowered.

I'm also a novice player but I would include these for certain. I have typically played 3 player with each of us (so far) having taken a mono sphere deck: Roommate as Lore, brother as Tactics, and I as Spirit.

In games where my brother has few allies or the deck is otherwise just not giving him what he needs, I tend to watch my allies fall before me. Reducing attack is very useful, as far as I'm concerned, especially considering 2 attk might be blocked by Emery but that shadow card often reveals a +1 or +2. Dropping it down to 0 from 2 means you can consistently chumpblock without worrying too much about losing your popples.

Seems appropriate to me. Similar to Dwalin, and the same defensively as 4-cost allies like Northern Tracker and Elfhelm. If it were Silvan (which I'm guessing because it has an enter play ability), then I would include it in just about every spirit Silvan deck.

Looks fine to me really. It wouldn't get a lot of play with that statline, but has a useful ability. As Teamjimby said, its real value will be determined by its trait... as a Silvan this would be a lot more powerful because you're going to be building your deck around the idea of playing it multiple times anyway. Still, even as 2-cost after an O Lorien! cost reduction, I think it's still OK (but not as a printed 2-cost card)

It's Esgaroth. Warrior.

Sounds fine to me. If I had to take a side, I would say overpowered vs. underpowered. With an Arwen boost, it could get bumped up to 3 defense, which with 3 hit points would be quite meaty.

The comparison for a unique spirit ally would be Háma. The stats are similar, though more focused towards defense. The ability is arguably weaker (similar effect, no action advantage). Since uniques are usually stronger than non-uniques, this sounds perfectly in line in terms of power level. Ally-based defense tends not to be too popular, but this guy should be able to take at least two not too strong attacks. Overall, I'd say the power level is fine. The (probably intentional) lack of defensive allies in spirit makes this a fairly strong addition.

Or to look at this from another perspective: At a cost of 2, this ally would be dramatically undercosted, at 4 it would not be played. 3 looks appropriate.

I am the one that is saying that the "cost of 3, 1 willpower, 1 attack, 2 defense and 3 health. It also has a response, that gets an engaged enemy -2 attack until the end of the round after the ally enters play." would have a hard time finding a spot in a deck unless you are desperate for a defender. He is called Town Watch.

Dwalin for 1 cost is good awesome. Having Sentinel helps him finding something to defend every turn. For 3, I never saw him played outside of Dwarf decks.

Hama is the best defender that spirit has. If I have the choice to put 3 Town Watch or 3 Hama, I would play 3 Hama. He can defend 2-3 strength attack and can sacrifice himself to the greater good to defend twice. Since he cost 3, your are probable playing him if you have 2-3 spirit heroes. Because of that, you deck probable is not combat focused to deal with lots of enemies, so being unique is not a big hindrace. If he dies, play the other one. If he doesnt, you dont need 2 hama on board.

Warden of Helm's Deep can survive more attacks because he is 3 defense, instead of 2, has sentinel so can find more targets, is in a sphere more likely to be heavy combat every round and cost 3 in a sphere that has access to more resources. Also, can be easily played with Spirit Theoden.

My reasoning that his card deserve a little bit of buff is that if I plan to print a card at http://www.printerstudio.com/personalized/custom_playing_cards_blank_cards.html, the card must carry his weight and find more reason to be included in my decks.

As printed, he would be hard to include. Not saying impossible, since even Taking Initiative can find a spot (Escape from Mount Gram). He can be used (in encounter quests with swarm mechanic with lots of 2-3 atk enemies), just not likely.

EDIT: Link for the article https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1352629/octgn-expansion-dark-corners-middle-earth

Emery cost 0, can be played in any player control at action speed, so can appear at anytime, exactly when need. Outside pure spirit she doesn't find a spot.

So you agree that Hama is a good card and that this card is similar to Hama. Decks with 2 spirit heroes can be good at combat, too. Lately I've been running a deck with Glorfindel, Eowyn, and Beravor and I almost always have 6 attack power ready to swing. I just need people to defend first.

While you praise Hama's sacrifice ability, you completely ignore the custom card's enter play ability, not to mention the fact that Hama has 1 less hit point. That 1 HP can make a big difference on quests that have a lot of treachery damage or archery.

Consider a situation where you have a 4-5 attack enemy in the staging area that you need to defend. Hama can use his ability to block it (and attack back for 2), but then he's gone. This guy could survive that attack (possibly undamaged) and stick around for the future.

You also have to factor in the non-unique aspect. 3 copies of Hama means there's a good chance you have a dead card in your hand. Not to mention that you can't use him if someone is using the Hama hero.

So is he better than Hama? Maybe sometimes, but either way they are very close. Does being slightly worse than Hama in a vacuum mean you'd never play him? I hope not.

IMO, if this guy were 2 cost I would include 3x copies in almost every spirit deck. It would be like Defender of Rammas, but in the spirit sphere that sorely lacks defenders. Cost of 3 makes him playable in certain decks, which is ultimately the goal of card design. 4 cost would be unplayable always.

So you agree that Hama is a good card and that this card is similar to Hama. Decks with 2 spirit heroes can be good at combat, too. Lately I've been running a deck with Glorfindel, Eowyn, and Beravor and I almost always have 6 attack power ready to swing. I just need people to defend first.

While you praise Hama's sacrifice ability, you completely ignore the custom card's enter play ability, not to mention the fact that Hama has 1 less hit point. That 1 HP can make a big difference on quests that have a lot of treachery damage or archery.

Consider a situation where you have a 4-5 attack enemy in the staging area that you need to defend. Hama can use his ability to block it (and attack back for 2), but then he's gone. This guy could survive that attack (possibly undamaged) and stick around for the future.

You also have to factor in the non-unique aspect. 3 copies of Hama means there's a good chance you have a dead card in your hand. Not to mention that you can't use him if someone is using the Hama hero.

So is he better than Hama? Maybe sometimes, but either way they are very close. Does being slightly worse than Hama in a vacuum mean you'd never play him? I hope not.

IMO, if this guy were 2 cost I would include 3x copies in almost every spirit deck. It would be like Defender of Rammas, but in the spirit sphere that sorely lacks defenders. Cost of 3 makes him playable in certain decks, which is ultimately the goal of card design. 4 cost would be unplayable always.

4 atk guy could kill Town Watch 40% of the time with a shadow card (percentage taken from nowhere), which you payed 3. Better chump with a 1 costed dude. 5 atk would kill town watch outright.

His ability does not affect staging. So to his ability to work in this situation, you will need to engage, survive one turn, then play Town Watch for -2 atk. This is one of the problems with his ability. Very situational and somewhat hard to use. A enemy must be engaged, the -2 atk need to make a difference (sometimes it doesn't against boss/huge enemies) and you must have 3 resources (which is easy in a 3 spirit heroes deck, but not as likely in a 2 spirit heroes deck).

So if you plan to use his ability, he is stuck in your hand. If you play him without his ability, he is Dwalin without Sentinel outside a dwarf deck.

Generally I pair Glorfindel and Idraen. If I engage, I block with Glor or Idraen, atk with 3 + ranged from someone or the third hero. I also tend to leave at least 1 chump ally If I need 2 defenses in a turn or a scary enemy appears. Hama can defend and retaliate against the scary enemy (the atk from Hama is welcome here since that enemy is scary so likely to have high HP+Def) or can sacrifice himself to defend twice. Westfold Horse-breeder is the best 1 costed chump in spirit (there is others, but more situational), so that chump generaly cost 2, which is costly.

I´m not saying to buff his cost to 2. For two, even if he was blank, he would be a really good ally. I´m saying to let his ability affect staging and +1 def / - 1 hp.

The buff to ability is to let me use his ability more reliable, so I can more easily play him not blank (in staging is not as ideal since if you didn't engage that enemy, he counted his Threat twice, once when appearing, again next turn when I play Town Watch). +1 def / -1 hp so he can more easily survive more small attacks and pay for his 3 cost.

EDIT: With this buff, Town Watch is a Warden of Rohan without sentinel and Theoden reduce cost (which is huge), but with a situational ability.

I was thinking you could use his ability on an enemy in the staging area, but I suppose it does say an engaged enemy. So it's not quite as good as I was thinking. In which case it depends on how many people are in your game. In 3-4 player there will often be at least one enemy that survives the round. He actually pairs well with Hama. You play Hama first and save him for that turn when you have 2 big enemies. Hama explodes and you probably kill one enemy. This guy comes in the next turn and blocks the surviving enemy.

Either way, I still think he is marginal but occasionally playable as written. If your whole point was just that his ability should affect enemies in the staging area, I don't have an objection to that. +1 def / -1 HP would probably make him too strong considering he'd be the only 3 defense spirit character (not just ally) in the game.

It seems fine to me. I probably wouldn't even play it much if at all, so I can't see it as overpowered.