bringing this back due to the news on the front page....league play means anyone that can get their store to send away for the kit can run events!

Yes that means you Rick!

Without any help from the store or FFG to drum up interest in the game, the store isn't carrying it and hasn't had any requests for it except mine. What do you think my chances are that the store will spend money on this kit?

I seriously hope your health is better than your luck with FLGSs ... regular players not interested in the new product that gets praise everywhere else, unless they get promos and/or demo decks? Store owner who isn't willing to risk some 15$ on the league kit (potentially on the core) and letting you do the drumming at the store?

In my case we're still waiting for the core packs, but the owner says he'll get them somewhat cheaper and he's already making plans for breaking a few sets open and selling individual decks within (at prices beating CCG pre-cons) to those interested at this point (and that's before any of us even held a single card in our hands!) ... when we'll discuss the league, I'm sure he'll be interested as well (heck, he ordered the CoC league kit just because we liked the pins and tokens, and the two of us are practically the only people who play. Granted I gave him some small cash for the stuff, but it's called a gaming HOBBY).

However, even though the above probably isn't of much help to you, I'd like to make a point;

It's obvious FFG isn't going to change their ways much in the forseeable future (and you should have seen the uproar that was white borders on the CoC LCG). Your LGS doesn't seem like it is willing to help you much, but after your anallogy, this isn't suprising; if you're saying "why doesn't FFG take the financial risk with promotional material", than the lazy folks at your LGS can say "why doesn't this guy put his time and money into promotion". I know they're in for a profit, but that's obviously a subjective matter and they don't think they're loosing much.

What I DO suggest, is something that would seem somewhat more constructive from my point of view; the time you've spent arguing why FFG is wrong up here would take anyone with zero graphic skills to put together a flyer with some WH-themed pictures and a descriptive text* inviting anyone interested to (and pay attention here) not demoing, but ordering a single core set and distributing it. My finances are severely limited, yet it was your argument that a CCG starter is a price someone is willing to pay in order to try a game ("before knowing how deep they want to go"). If you can't find anyone, or people loose interest after the Core try-out, than it would make little sense for you to inves further, I assume. But if your short-sighted store-owner sees the interest you're generating, I see no reason why he wouldn't wish to stock the product, even just for the loyal few. If that doesn't help, then my advice would be to seriously consider ordering on-line and getting together with other players elsewhere.

So to sum it up; to achieve a simmilar effect potential FFGs help would provide, it would take you some half an hour or an hour's work, and about 10$ of investment (if that's to much of a risk capital, than I'm afraid this won't help). Granted it is guerilla, but here is what you should ask yourself; do you want to try at launching the game that obviously has your interest, or is it more about changing FFGs policies to what fits your expectations of a successful business which is AFTER they have resurrected two CCGs as LCGs and are launching a third in a time of global financial f**k-up)?

* i.e.:

- "Want to spend less on a CCG experience?"

- "Want to game in a WH universe, but always end up with your fingers glued and paint all over the place?"

- "Want to know what a Living Card Game is?"

- "LCG - the CCG of tomorrow!"

- "Command the forces of Order and Destruction in a LCG so cool even Karl Franz plays it!"

- a series of posters; "A LCG so tactical even Karl Franz/so simple even Orcs/so fast even Elves/so solid even Dwarfs/so cool (bloody?) even Chaos plays it!"

P.S.: I my experience fan-made "material" (read: posters) generates quite some interest; instead of thinking "what are they trying to sell me now, with this poster, lost amongst all others", people say "what is this game, that someone thinks so cool he made a flyer for it?"

um...why not spend yout own money on a kit, use it and drum up interest...then have the store order one for a league

Lucas Blackwolf said:

I'm not sure what you mean by buying a core set and distributing it and it only costing me $10.

Hidatom said:

How is a kit going to drum up interest when the store doesn't carry the game? I didn't see anything about the league kit's contents that would be helpful in selling people on the game.

rickert said:

My bad, the Core set costs roughly 30$. So; 4 people buy a Core set (together) containing 4 decks and distribute the decks amongst themselves. Instead of buying a Core set all by yourself (which you're obviously not inclined to do), you (with a single act) make sure there are 4 other people interested AND get into the game with a minimal investment (about 7 or 8$). Savvy?

rickert said:

Well, it does have a poster and some stuff to give to interested people, which, if I recall, were amongst your ideas of a "support". But if you can't get your FLGS to order a few Core stes (as in two or three), than I fear your primary problem isn't with FFs policies.

And maybe a paradigm shift for you there (and with it a whole new look at your issue); where I come from, interested players, not stores, drum up interest for a new game.

Rickert is Right.

I'm thinkin' about some good prices for mass-tournaments too and League Kit is not going to be a good choice...

League play is a great way to enjoy the game...but its LIMITED-appeal seems to grab less interest than the standard-contstructed's does...It's similar to the MtG sealed deck...But it has a different concept.

If league play is meant to be a "starting-point", league kits are not that good. It can seem a paradox, but an old-player can appreciate it more than a new one...

If it's meant to be a "local-meta" development format, I do really think that Standard-Constructed format (all BP available) is the best choice, 'cause if I can do one tournament per week, there's no good reason to do it in constructed or, at least, to alternate Standard, draft and League...

So, in the end: League play is a good thing, but league kits are not that good.

I do prefer some "art" prices or, at least, cards.

For new players, I do really like this one (i'm going to do it, here): "pay 10 bucks, make a 4 players draft and keep the card you drafted", then, split the League Kit among winners.

Remember that the league play has nothing to do with this: the main intention is to make each player buy a Core Set, a BP and so on...

New players are there to be "thrilled"...And a good draft night with a limited amount of money and a quarter of a Core Set in hand is a BIG thrill, to me.

Lucas Blackwolf said:

Lucas Blackwolf said:

Yep that makes sense. My big problem is that I only know one other person interested sight unseen. So with a $39.95 pricetag, that's $20 apiece. That's not a huge investment but my past history is getting in the way. I have many CCGs that sit on my shelf at home because either I could never find many players or because there wasn't enough interest in the product nationally or internationally and the game quit being produced.

Lucas Blackwolf said:

I feel like there's enough blame to go around. I'm to blame in that my past experiences with failed games that I've invested my own money in which now just sit on the shelf with no players. Now I'm reluctant to invest again. There's blame for the store that won't take a chance on new games, I would guess for the same reason in that they've been stuck with games on the shelves that they couldn't move. Then there's blame for FFG because it won't offer incentives to new players or to stores to carry new product.

Ok old sport, how about you let the whole Guilt thing to some fanatic Empire church and their Flagellants unit (when a unit under your control would be corrupted, you may corrupt the Flagellants instead).
As I said; the whole flier idea I had, was so that you get as much people as possible to look into the game online and discuss it with you, hence perhaps getting you at least one more person to buy it "sight uneen" and break down the Core.

Then, when you have the cards, you can organise a mini-event at the store, where you demo the game, show the stuff, talk to people. At the same time, try to promote the idea of a league, so when the store owner will order the Core sets, at the same time he can order the league kit and you get the league going.

Things can move slow, as long as they move - I dn't expect you'll get a local league of 15 players from the get-go. But if there are even 4 or 5 folks playing, people will stop by and ask what you're doing. If you'll point out the LCG aspect and the GW license, you're granted to generate further interest.