What do the numbers mean - how how do things compare to each other?

So in a lot of RPG systems the actual numbers know as Attributes, Characteristics, and or Statistics represent your character ability to interact with the world around them...

So this got me to thinking (since I do convert alot of things from other systems into 40k format)

Ever heard of the term Peak Human - if not here's a good explanation

Value Equivalency

10% - apprentice, neophyte, novice, rookie
20% - amateur, dabbler, layperson
30% - expert, sportsman
40% - master, professional, savant

50% - peak human ability

I came up with the numbers and their associated interpretation based on the Battlefleet Koronus Source Book (Page 126) - section "Men of Quality"...

Now you might say; but hey wait a minute - Batman would be a "Vet" by the description of what a Peak Human is compared to the value of 50% which according to the material is a "Veteran" grade value - and that's fine AND correct!

Batman Early Years = 40%

Batman Now = 50%

Anyhow this is how I explain the numbers to players with the added comic book analogy more familiar to most.

Splitting Hairs: Characteristics over 50% would then be explained by augmetics, mutation, and all the sordid ways one may transcend their human limits!

Hope this helps

Stay GAMING

Morbid

The DH1 core rulebook actually had a table where the Characteristics were explained by comparing them to various examples.

I'm actually a bit disappointed that this was not followed through. Granted, the table itself may be a bit flawed and could use some expansion (I'd deem the differences too small), but I found the very idea of a consistent progression between the tiers much more appealing than the Unnatural Traits that ended up undermining the whole thing.

Ehh - the values above are not my cup of Tea actually - Ork, Eldar, Daemon would seemingly in their respective aspect (i.e. what they are good at) be out of "human norms" (aka range).

Then again DH Core 1 didn't know that in the future - they (the publisher) would be presented by RT Battlefleet Koronos values to come...

I personally would deem DH1 to be obsolete - again that's just me LOL

If you want I can graphically make my values into Table Format similar to Fantasy Flight book format - above? (call it Table 1-2 Characteristic Benchmarks)

I can see your point about Unnatural Traits - to me that "stuff" can be explained away if/when they go over +5 Bonus Value (i.e. 50% Characteristic), nothing natural grant you - cyber, drugs, mutation, psycher buffs, etc.

When the Unnatural Trait is assigned it usually has an underlying catalyst (i.e. a source / cause and effect) for it, right?

Morbid

Ehh - the values above are not my cup of Tea actually - Ork, Eldar, Daemon would seemingly in their respective aspect (i.e. what they are good at) be out of "human norms" (aka range).

That's what I meant with the differences feeling too small, yeah. Personally I do not agree that they'd all be out of human range entirely simply because that range can be rather big in some cases (Catachans are really pushing the Str envelope, for example), but that is a matter of interpretation, and either way the steps would have to be bigger.

Still, I like the very idea of there being a "key" of sorts that gives you an idea of how to interpret the stats and where the various species and their Characteristics are.

Then again DH Core 1 didn't know that in the future - they (the publisher) would be presented by RT Battlefleet Koronos values to come...

Not to mention that it was two different studios and thus different writers/designers, all with their own ideas and opinions.

DH1 was originally written by Black Industries, until FFG acquired the license and changed some aspects of its rules as well as its background. This is why DH1 has two different versions of Sororitas, two different versions of Arbites, and two different versions of Space Marines, for example. Or why there are certain contradictions in the background if you compare the earlier to the later books.

I personally would deem DH1 to be obsolete - again that's just me LOL

It's best to only look at each game individually, anyways. Contrary to the disclaimer that the contents of the books are supposedly compatible, there are notable differences in stats and rules and "power level" between them, as many players have remarked on the forums.

Nothing wrong with taking inspiration from the others, but I'd never copy some of its stats or rules without checking if they need to be adjusted!

When the Unnatural Trait is assigned it usually has an underlying catalyst (i.e. a source / cause and effect) for it, right?

Oh, yes. My criticism is more on the wonkiness of their mechanical implementation, which is very inconsistent between its value/effect depending on the Characteristic and their Bonuses. Unnatural Toughness, for example, can easily turn into a gamebreaker due to making characters invincible. Unnatural Strength isn't nearly as bad, whereas Unnatural Willpower changes between "utterly broken" to "nearly useless" depending on whether you play a Psyker or not.

It's also bad because it does not actually make the characters better as much as it should, it merely increases the effect of a successful test. For example, if a Guardsman with Strength 53 and a Space Marine with Strength 42 and the Unnatural Strength trait would arm-wrestle, the chances are better that the Guardsman would beat the Marine. That doesn't feel right either.

In my opinion, the window for Characteristics should go well beyond the 50 range. That might make normal tests too easy to succeed at -- yet isn't that the point of having such characters in the first place? The solution to cakewalks would be to simply introduce harder challenges that might be impossible for other characters but "only" difficult for a character with an excessive Characteristic, such as pulling open a sealed airlock with your hands. There is no need to have Unnatural Traits at all; simply have such characters start at a value of ~60 or so.

I'd also lower the Characteristics Advances to +2 or +3 (down from +5) to recreate the stat overlap from the tabletop whilst still maintaining obvious barriers setting the various species apart, not to mention that smaller Advances sound like a more sensible progression considering the values you start out with.

Numbers wise - I agree totally with you Lynara, me and you are on the same Voidship LOL