I think the easiest fix is a cheaper Syck only cannon. Call it a 'Nal Hutta Special' or something. Three dice, range 1-3, you may turn one focus result to a hit result. 5 points.

i made a three syck list, and i think the idea isn't to try to make it a head on attack list, play up its strengths, the **** evades.

It would still be a (at base) a 21 point ship for something that only has 1 shield and 2 hull!! The simple fix is to remove the 2 point tax on a cannon (or other upgrade)!

or else the K fighter is just gonna out-class the scyk..

Cheap arc dodger vs straight-line jouster? Nah, they both have their roles.

Pair up the Scyk with some other ships and go glass cannon kamikaze!

4x Black Sun Soldier /w Feedback array

2x Cartel Spacer /w Title, Mangler

You are gonna bring something down quick, or you are gonna go poof in a big ball of fire!

In fact, thinking about it...

3 x Cartel Marauders

2 x Cartel Spacers (Heavy Scyk with either Ion or Mangler Cannons)

...sounds like a pretty solid squad to me.

I have House Rules incoming that will make the M3-A more viable!

Summary

PS2 cost reduced from 14 to 13

PS5 cost reduced from 17 to 16

Ashera cost increased from 18 to 19, and ability reworded: "The first time defending each round, you may add one evade result to your defense roll."

Heavy Skyc title cost increased from 2 to 3, but it now also grants +1 Hull.

Haven't figured out Serissu yet, but may just leave it at 20 points.

Pair up the Scyk with some other ships and go glass cannon kamikaze!

4x Black Sun Soldier /w Feedback array

2x Cartel Spacer /w Title, Mangler

You are gonna bring something down quick, or you are gonna go poof in a big ball of fire!

Swap the feedbacks for deadman switches to make sure it is indeed a BIG ball of fire.

In fact, thinking about it...

3 x Cartel Marauders

2 x Cartel Spacers (Heavy Scyk with either Ion or Mangler Cannons)

...sounds like a pretty solid squad to me.

These types of lists are fun. It can teach you a lot about how to fly.

I have House Rules incoming that will make the M3-A more viable!

Summary

PS2 cost reduced from 14 to 13

PS5 cost reduced from 17 to 16

Ashera cost increased from 18 to 19, and ability reworded: "The first time defending each round, you may add one evade result to your defense roll."

Heavy Skyc title cost increased from 2 to 3, but it now also grants +1 Hull.

Haven't figured out Serissu yet, but may just leave it at 20 points.

You would. I want you and Theorist or MrFroggies to square off to see if their optimism for the scyk can overcome the math. Your mathwing is appreciated and often reinforced by tournament results, but it is nice when the tables get overturned and some upstart lists starts doing well despite the odds.

In fact, thinking about it...

3 x Cartel Marauders

2 x Cartel Spacers (Heavy Scyk with either Ion or Mangler Cannons)

...sounds like a pretty solid squad to me.

Actually it does. You can be really aggressive with the Marauders while you try and keep the Spacers out of the main fray. You can force your opponent into engaging the Marauders as he can't ignore 3 ships throwing 3 and 4 attack dice at him.

I've been also contemplating running Serious with Talonbane. In theory you should be able to keep the heat off Talonbane while he tries to get into range 1.

I posted this on afewmaneuvers.com figured it was relevant here too.

Hello. I'm relatively new to the game and I bought tons of models even though I've only played about 5 games. I listened to your most recent episode and though it was funny that someone had a 3 M3A Interceptor build, because I had just created one that same day which was almost identical. Serissu — M3-A Interceptor 20 Push the Limit 3 Heavy Laser Cannon 7 Stealth Device 3 "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2 Ship Total: 35 Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor 17 Push the Limit 3 Heavy Laser Cannon 7 Stealth Device 3 "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2 Ship Total: 32 Tansarii Point Veteran — M3-A Interceptor 17 Push the Limit 3 Heavy Laser Cannon 7 Stealth Device 3 "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) 2 Ship Total: 32 This is the build, The M3A is a problematic ship because its hard to look past 3 hit points. Id rather have one less evade die and one more shield, for 5 points less. But I wanted to see if I could maximize the ship anyway. There is a reason FFG packaged these ships with stealth device. 4 evade dice is better than a shield upgrade. Unless im going up against Lt. Blount, I dont expect to loose that stealth device anytime soon. The rule will be Evade every turn, no matter what. I've introduced Tansarii point veteran for the EPT slot. I know you guys aren't fans of it, it's three points for the opportunity to spend more points. However I think PTL is that good. It lets you boost attack power, or defense even further if you wish to do focus/evade. A good pilot (not me) could maneuver and use barrel roll to stay at range three, hide behind asteroids, and pick range 3 shots carefully. Obviously I'm paying premiums again for HLC. You have to. I think HLC is enough, even without target lock to make the shots count. So why waste my time and points? 4 Defense Dice 1 Evade Token 1 Serissu Reroll 1 Focus if you choose it 1 Range Die if your a good pilot, and/or 1 Obstruction die if you can stay behind obstacles. We cant expect all of that to come together every turn, but I think you can count on having at least one evade from the token, and what amounts to 4-5 dice on top of that, to stay safe. Swarm builds would likely be the worst matchup for this list. Lone targets, like a Firespray, might be good victims depending on deploymen t.

I think you are completely right in this approach. It's a flippin' HLC. Embrace the awesome, don't make it budget. The amount of firepower you bring to bear with 3 super-Scyks is just so far beyond what most players have ever dealt with.

I have House Rules incoming that will make the M3-A more viable!

Summary

PS2 cost reduced from 14 to 13

PS5 cost reduced from 17 to 16

Ashera cost increased from 18 to 19, and ability reworded: "The first time defending each round, you may add one evade result to your defense roll."

Heavy Skyc title cost increased from 2 to 3, but it now also grants +1 Hull.

Haven't figured out Serissu yet, but may just leave it at 20 points.

You would. I want you and Theorist or MrFroggies to square off to see if their optimism for the scyk can overcome the math. Your mathwing is appreciated and often reinforced by tournament results, but it is nice when the tables get overturned and some upstart lists starts doing well despite the odds.

Certainly! Against HLC/FCS Dual IG-88, we might as well call this matchup "how many HLCs can we get on the table at once?"

In all seriousness, I have been thinking about this matchup for a while and would love to test out Froggies' and Theorist's stock M3-A squads vs myself flying a squad I am also well versed with. To really see how well the M3-As stack up, you need to run several games and/or take the M3-As to Regionals/Nationals/Worlds. When using direct playtesting with small numbers of games, the most important thing is getting two players with roughly equivalent player skill flying each side, otherwise the stronger player ends up steamrolling the weaker player, and that doesn't tell you much about the squad quality. Froggies and Theorist are both great pilots.

I'll have to go see if I can get some games in with them and report the results back.

I love MJ's math on the ship, but... It talks about the ship in isolation. A squad is more then the sum of its parts. How they play off each and how you fly it make a world of difference. If a ship needs to last a little longer to make back it's points then you have to keep it alive so that it can do that. You can use the math to help inform how you fly. While it might not be as efficient, as some ships, it gives you a different look. The Syck is not as cost effective as a Z95, but when you carry an HLC you can often hit targets that a Z95 will struggle a lot against. I would love to get a game in against MJ to test it out. So far I haven't lost against Brobots, but these guys haven't won a Regional like MJ . While I like your House Rules MJ, I feel like your giving players an out on really learning the ship. I've seen so many players try and give up on the Syck because they don't fly like a ship they want them to be, instead of flying them like they were made to. "You must unlearn what you have learned".

I love MJ's math on the ship, but... It talks about the ship in isolation. A squad is more then the sum of its parts. How they play off each and how you fly it make a world of difference. If a ship needs to last a little longer to make back it's points then you have to keep it alive so that it can do that. You can use the math to help inform how you fly. While it might not be as efficient, as some ships, it gives you a different look. The Syck is not as cost effective as a Z95, but when you carry an HLC you can often hit targets that a Z95 will struggle a lot against. I would love to get a game in against MJ to test it out. So far I haven't lost against Brobots, but these guys haven't won a Regional like MJ . While I like your House Rules MJ, I feel like your giving players an out on really learning the ship. I've seen so many players try and give up on the Syck because they don't fly like a ship they want them to be, instead of flying them like they were made to. "You must unlearn what you have learned".

Gestalt!

Haven't figured out Serissu yet, but may just leave it at 20 points.

Let Serissu be affected by her own ability.

In my opinion, Serissu is best flown in a "messy swarm." You want her buffing her comrades from outside the enemy's arc. If she's in formation with everyone else, she gets hosed on your first pass.

As for Laetin, I find him very fun to fly, but the lack of the EPT kills him. I fly him for fun, but I have trouble putting him in a serious list. Those times when you get the extra evade are awesome, though!

I think the easiest fix is a cheaper Syck only cannon. Call it a 'Nal Hutta Special' or something. Three dice, range 1-3, you may turn one focus result to a hit result. 5 points.

i made a three syck list, and i think the idea isn't to try to make it a head on attack list, play up its strengths, the **** evades.

It would still be a (at base) a 21 point ship for something that only has 1 shield and 2 hull!! The simple fix is to remove the 2 point tax on a cannon (or other upgrade)!

I see what you mean stone, it still is costly, i would have preferred the upgrade to be free. i don't know why it isn't, but id also like to not have to buy a different card to replace that one. either way though, i still want to fly it

In fact, thinking about it...

3 x Cartel Marauders

2 x Cartel Spacers (Heavy Scyk with either Ion or Mangler Cannons)

...sounds like a pretty solid squad to me.

Actually it does. You can be really aggressive with the Marauders while you try and keep the Spacers out of the main fray. You can force your opponent into engaging the Marauders as he can't ignore 3 ships throwing 3 and 4 attack dice at him.

I've been also contemplating running Serious with Talonbane. In theory you should be able to keep the heat off Talonbane while he tries to get into range 1.

Totally agree

I can even see having those Scyks be naked with max K-fighters. They should compliment each other well enough.

Yeah, you could actually drop the Manglers & Heavy Scyk titles and run:

3 x Cartel Marauders

2 x Cartel Spacers

1 x Binayre Pilot

That's a sick Scyk swarm.

I love MJ's math on the ship, but... It talks about the ship in isolation. A squad is more then the sum of its parts. How they play off each and how you fly it make a world of difference. If a ship needs to last a little longer to make back it's points then you have to keep it alive so that it can do that. You can use the math to help inform how you fly. While it might not be as efficient, as some ships, it gives you a different look. The Syck is not as cost effective as a Z95, but when you carry an HLC you can often hit targets that a Z95 will struggle a lot against. I would love to get a game in against MJ to test it out. So far I haven't lost against Brobots, but these guys haven't won a Regional like MJ .

I don't think a pure 4-Syck swarm can be run effectively at a high competitive level, because you can't force difficult target priority choices. Results converge much closer to the raw math in that case. They all make equally good targets, and the damage output falls off quickly once they start dropping and getting into range 1.

However, I really like the synergy that your R1 death bubble Y-wings have with the R2-3 HLC barrage from the Sycks. You can shove the Y-wings up front to block and get their R1 death bubble shots, and the Sycks can stay further in the rear where they get their 4 dice HLC attacks. You can still run the wounded Syck up front to block and avoid getting shot at for a round.

The rules haven't been tested yet, they're just about where they need to be on paper. However it's possible that it would be slightly too powerful. Jousting efficiency of a PS2 with HLC and essentially a free Hull Upgrade works out to 97.5%, assuming 25% of your shots are forced at range 1 (3 primary dice, no HLC). Add the Hull Upgrade back on (x/3/4/1 statline), and efficiency is about 96%. On a game by game basis this can vary wildly -- some matches you may get dragged into close range far more often than 25%, while other games you may be able to hang back and maximize your damage output. For reference, a stock PS2 + HLC + Hull clocks in around 86% with the same 25% R1 assumption, with a corresponding absolute required efficiency of 140%. If you never have to take 3 dice R1 shots, then the jousting efficiency increases to 92% with a corresponding absolute required efficiency of 125%. So, on paper anyway, against a similar level opponent and reasonable squad matchup, you have a little bit of an uphill climb but it can be done.

Well, there's that! I'm something like 24-3 with the PS8 @98 points with Inertial Dampeners variant. Some of that is player skill differential, some of that is squad matchups (I'm moving after everything PS8 or lower now), and some of it is tightening up my play. Provided neither of us has a huge mental brain fart*, we're both probably around the same caliber with our respective squads.

I do think that this particular matchup slightly favors the HLC/FCS/ID BroBots. There is a non-trivial chance that the M3-As will get off exactly one HLC shot the entire game (total, not per ship). If you get more than 3 HLC shots then I think you have outflown me and you have a good chance at winning. Conversely if I can limit you to a maximum of 2 HLC shots, preferably at range 3 so I get autothrusters, then I think the BroBots have the edge.

* I still have a tendency to do that occasionally.

I keep putting them in my scum lists and they keep bing the worst ~20pts spent. I've tried every load out and so now I'm trying just naked.

There maybe room later when the Special K or YV drops since they are "cheap" and with more points to play with I could see a 1 of here and there. Their biggest issues for me are the 2pt tax on any offensive upgrade and the lack of an illicit slot. Combined with their other issues: not a great dial, maybe a point too much already, z for cheaper, 3 hp, "bad" named abilities for ship; they just have so much working against them.

I'll keep plugging away like with the defender and the shuttle but without different upgrade options I don't have the hope and don't see anywhere near the potential.

If Laetin had an EPT, she'd be a glorious little ace dogfighter. It'd be a self-regenerating defence stack! As it is, you're too reliant on that first dice roll.

I keep putting them in my scum lists and they keep bing the worst ~20pts spent. I've tried every load out and so now I'm trying just naked.

There maybe room later when the Special K or YV drops since they are "cheap" and with more points to play with I could see a 1 of here and there. Their biggest issues for me are the 2pt tax on any offensive upgrade and the lack of an illicit slot. Combined with their other issues: not a great dial, maybe a point too much already, z for cheaper, 3 hp, "bad" named abilities for ship; they just have so much working against them.

I'll keep plugging away like with the defender and the shuttle but without different upgrade options I don't have the hope and don't see anywhere near the potential.

I too can't get these guys to pull their weight. A Starviper at 25 points is a far better choice. I'm going to try flying them again tonight. 2x Veteran+HLC+Predator (29) and 2x Thug+AB Turret+Unhinged (21)

If Laetin had an EPT, she'd be a glorious little ace dogfighter. It'd be a self-regenerating defence stack! As it is, you're too reliant on that first dice roll.

I'm planning on trying Laetin+Mangler, in formation with Serissu+Swarm Tactics. Flanked by 2 Autothruster Starvipers. Laetin should get some help from Serissu's ability, and Serissu's only action will be Evade.

I call the list Sewer Rats because everybody thinks these ships play like <sith>. Plus, I was digging up my sewer line in the front yard while I thought about it.

So ran my list twice tonight. 2x Veteran+Predator+HLC and 2x Thug+AB Turret+Unhinged

Both games were against a double Scum Firespray list. (Kath and Emon)

First game I got some hot dice and took out Kath in the first pass. It was then very difficult to pin down Emon without getting blown up. Had we timed it, it may have been a win on points only and not a total victory.

Second game. Dice went well, but not perfect. Took a round too long to kill Emon, and he laid the hurt on a Veteran and a Thug. Kath then cleaned up the remaining Y-wing and Scyk.

Verdict: Not only are the Scyk just too fragile, Kath is that **** good.

For a while i ran serissue with stealth device as the 'core' of a flight of four cartel spacers with a variety of cannons.

Its not so hot for tourneys as it requires you to engage at range while in formation, disengage and take snipy shots when you can with 'evade' as almost your 'glued on' action.

If you stick in formation its great, i've won four out of five games with this list, the only time it came crashing down is when i've broke formation to 'finish off' a target and rolled a load of blanks, then that ship usually gets wasted in the return fire.or following turn.

Then again im not playing timed games and also Simon and I tend to take varied stuff so I may well be winning because he was finding his feet with one list or the other.

****. Now I'm actually tempted to give the 3 x Cartel Marauder, 2 x Cartel Space list a try.

Time to hit ebay and sell off some more GW stuff, I guess...