But they don't arc-dodge all that well... If you are doing barrel rolls, your offensive action economy will suck.

Sure - if you just run Cartel Spacers. But they have high PS generics with an EPT slot, I'm not seeing the problem.

Alpha Squadron pilots and Prototype pilot's action economy sucks as well, they're still arc dodgers.

PS 5 isn't the greatest for arc-dodging. Sure you can arc-dodge most other generics, but most named pilots won't fear you. You are going to be doing a lot of guessing on where you barrel roll. Also, they get expensive silly quickly. A Tansarri Vet, w/ Predator and Mangler is 26 points! The equivalent Imperial, Saber sqd. w/ PTL & ATs, will run a circles around you and not cry when a turret is across the table.

That's where we differ. I don't consider a stock A-wing an arc-dodger and I have a hard time calling an Alpha an arc-dodger. You can dodge arcs with them, but good luck.

But they don't arc-dodge all that well... If you are doing barrel rolls, your offensive action economy will suck.

Sure - if you just run Cartel Spacers. But they have high PS generics with an EPT slot, I'm not seeing the problem.

Alpha Squadron pilots and Prototype pilot's action economy sucks as well, they're still arc dodgers.

PS 5 isn't the greatest for arc-dodging. Sure you can arc-dodge most other generics, but most named pilots won't fear you. You are going to be doing a lot of guessing on where you barrel roll. Also, they get expensive silly quickly. A Tansarri Vet, w/ Predator and Mangler is 26 points! The equivalent Imperial, Saber sqd. w/ PTL & ATs, will run a circles around you and not cry when a turret is across the table.

That's where we differ. I don't consider a stock A-wing an arc-dodger and I have a hard time calling an Alpha an arc-dodger. You can dodge arcs with them, but good luck.

Arc-Dodging is part of the repositional abilities, but only if you have the PS advantage in a match-up.

However, unpredictability of maneuver is still available for all, and coupled with a good read on the opponent's position means you can still dodge their arc (unless they also have repositional abilities).

Some maneuver combos (like the Matador Turn or the 1Turn into Boost combo) are best done at PS 0, where they cannot be blocked.

But they don't arc-dodge all that well... If you are doing barrel rolls, your offensive action economy will suck.

Sure - if you just run Cartel Spacers. But they have high PS generics with an EPT slot, I'm not seeing the problem.

Alpha Squadron pilots and Prototype pilot's action economy sucks as well, they're still arc dodgers.

PS 5 isn't the greatest for arc-dodging. Sure you can arc-dodge most other generics, but most named pilots won't fear you. You are going to be doing a lot of guessing on where you barrel roll. Also, they get expensive silly quickly. A Tansarri Vet, w/ Predator and Mangler is 26 points! The equivalent Imperial, Saber sqd. w/ PTL & ATs, will run a circles around you and not cry when a turret is across the table.

That's where we differ. I don't consider a stock A-wing an arc-dodger and I have a hard time calling an Alpha an arc-dodger. You can dodge arcs with them, but good luck.

Low PS is useful sometimes, but I think this thing doesn't have the tools to really arc dodge well. Obviously everyone wants to dodge arcs, but the dirt cheap A-wing test pilot is a blocker, not a dodger. He uses his boost to get to an annoying spot and that's his role.

Tricking out a Scyk so hard as to cost 75% of a kitted out Guri/Xizor, who actually are good arc dodgers, strikes me as not a good move.

Low PS is useful sometimes, but I think this thing doesn't have the tools to really arc dodge well. Obviously everyone wants to dodge arcs, but the dirt cheap A-wing test pilot is a blocker, not a dodger. He uses his boost to get to an annoying spot and that's his role.

Tricking out a Scyk so hard as to cost 75% of a kitted out Guri/Xizor, who actually are good arc dodgers, strikes me as not a good move.

What are these mystical tools? As far as I know, all you need is barrel roll. And behold! The Scyk has that.

Guri is no better at dodging arcs than a tansarii point veteran unless you give her Push the Limit (for the boost + BR combo).

Low PS is useful sometimes, but I think this thing doesn't have the tools to really arc dodge well. Obviously everyone wants to dodge arcs, but the dirt cheap A-wing test pilot is a blocker, not a dodger. He uses his boost to get to an annoying spot and that's his role.

Tricking out a Scyk so hard as to cost 75% of a kitted out Guri/Xizor, who actually are good arc dodgers, strikes me as not a good move.

What are these mystical tools? As far as I know, all you need is barrel roll. And behold! The Scyk has that.

Guri is no better at dodging arcs than a tansarii point veteran unless you give her Push the Limit (for the boost + BR combo).

Well then tie fighters make amazing arc dodgers and you're wasting your points. Just run 8 ties and dodge all the arcs!

Guri with advanced sensors is way better than pretty much any tansarii you can kit out at arc dodging.

But they don't arc-dodge all that well... If you are doing barrel rolls, your offensive action economy will suck.

Sure - if you just run Cartel Spacers. But they have high PS generics with an EPT slot, I'm not seeing the problem.

Alpha Squadron pilots and Prototype pilot's action economy sucks as well, they're still arc dodgers.

PS 5 isn't the greatest for arc-dodging. Sure you can arc-dodge most other generics, but most named pilots won't fear you. You are going to be doing a lot of guessing on where you barrel roll. Also, they get expensive silly quickly. A Tansarri Vet, w/ Predator and Mangler is 26 points! The equivalent Imperial, Saber sqd. w/ PTL & ATs, will run a circles around you and not cry when a turret is across the table.

That's where we differ. I don't consider a stock A-wing an arc-dodger and I have a hard time calling an Alpha an arc-dodger. You can dodge arcs with them, but good luck.

Low PS is useful sometimes, but I think this thing doesn't have the tools to really arc dodge well. Obviously everyone wants to dodge arcs, but the dirt cheap A-wing test pilot is a blocker, not a dodger. He uses his boost to get to an annoying spot and that's his role.

Tricking out a Scyk so hard as to cost 75% of a kitted out Guri/Xizor, who actually are good arc dodgers, strikes me as not a good move.

And even Guri and Xizor suffer from the limited PS.

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Outmaneuver (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Trandoshan Slaver (29)

Tactician (2)

Tactician (2)

Tactician (2)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Scyk flanks, YV triple stress trolls.

Nice! I like the ASB site too; the layout just looks nice IMO.

Tansarii Point Veteran (17) Outmaneuver (3) Heavy Laser Cannon (7) "Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2) Trandoshan Slaver (29) Tactician (2) Tactician (2) Tactician (2) Binayre Pirate (12) Binayre Pirate (12) Binayre Pirate (12) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Scyk flanks, YV triple stress trolls.

I like your set up. Have to try it out.

For another approuch, how about shifting some things around to get Razzi? She can give the equivalent to outmaneuver to any friendly ship without need for arc dodging.

YV-666: · Latts Razzi (33)

Tactical Jammer (1)

Weapons Engineer (3)

M3-A INTERCEPTOR: Cartel Spacer (14)

Shield Upgrade (4)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (2)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Z-95 HEADHUNTER: Binayre Pirate (12)

Z-95 HEADHUNTER: Binayre Pirate (12)

Z-95 HEADHUNTER: Binayre Pirate (12)

I'm sure you can optimize a bit more. You can get Bossk crew, gunner, and engineer to fit if yoy drop Syck down to Mangler only, but I like the HLC with Razzi's ability.

Tansari Point Veteran vs Black Squadron pilot.

Tansari is 3 more points, has a target lock, it's first health is a shield, and it has 1 banks. it also has 1 higher PS, an access to the Scum only "Bodyguard" EPT.

I took a list backed by Serissu+Swarm Tactics, and including a generic Starviper, to the Plano Regionals. My first tournament and I placed 42 out of 115. Had I not played the worst game of my life in Round 7 against my list's Kryptonite, a top 16 finish was theoretically in reach. Ah, if only... (I hope to break down my full list and provide a tournament report soon.)

I got a good look at the variety of lists on all the tables and I can't say I saw one other M3-A.

Serissu's defensive assist ability was regularly used and more than once beneficial in evading an extra hit. Her Swarm Tactics were absolutely vital to the success I had, and in one key game, a millimeter separated me from probable victory when Serissu was blocked and denied the chance to grant PS8 to a bug zapper, which would have dealt a decisive killing blow to my opponent's ace instead of being killed first.

A couple of mental lapses and utterly boneheaded choices accounted for two of my three losses.

Bottom line: Serissu sitting behind the formation and giving a reverse Howlrunner effect has winning potential with the right list. I built it as a meta-killer, and in my one match against a two-ship PWT+Ace, I burned down Fat Han with Chewie crew in three rounds of combat and had my shortest game of the day.

It's a nimble, deceptively useful support ship.

Saying the dial sucks because it lacks a 1 forward is stupid. Just because you can't slow roll like a B-wing with a cannon doesn't mean the dial sucks. As Froggie stated, there are a lot of great things you can do with the dial. It's got everything but a 1 forward and a 3 turn. It's got the 5 k-turn. Has anyone used them much with that? I have and it's a great dial option.

Tie Fighters are good arc dodgers. They always have been. They defined arc dodging before the Tie Interceptor came out. While arc dodging is easier when you have a high PS, you can still dodge arc with a lower PS vs higher ones if you can predict where they will be. Also, the arguement of just taking Tie Fighters isn't an option when you are flying Scum.

What I think everyone is trying to do is take a list of only Scyks. You might find some lists that work that way, but I don't think the ship does that well in that arena. It works better when the enemy's focus is on something else. That means the ship works better when you have it in a mixed list. When the Scyk can go unnoticed for a bit, it can cause more damage.

The Scyk can also be a good ship without Cannons, too. Sure, not as much damage potential, but cheaper. Flying one or two of these guys in a list can work great. I'd rather have them than Z-95. The Z-95 has an uninteresting dial and is very predictable. If you have any experience with various Tie Fighters you know how good an agile ship with 2 attack can be. OH, I don't mean Ties in formation. I mean agile ships actually swarming around an enemy. These little guys can be ignored, but you suddenly find yourself at R1 of a guy that you can't shoot and he's got a TL and Focus on you.

I think they are costed fine. I don't think they suck. I don't think looking at tournament results is the best way to measure it.

Exactly, some apparently people think that the only way to run TIE Fighters it to fly a big block of them with Howlrunner in the middle. Or to throw Academy Pilots straight in your opponent's face to deny them actions.

Er, no.

Look at Backstabber. Look at Mauler Mithel. Pilot abilities designed for players looking to avoid arcs and for prime positioning.

The TIE Fighter's innate ability to slip out of arc by combining it's speed and the amazing Barrel Roll action made the Empire arc dodgers from day one - before Boost and Push the Limit even existed.

The Scyk is an arc dodger. That doesn't (and shouldn't) mean it plays identically to the TIE Interceptor and A-Wing. In fact, all three ships operate differently, have different strengths and weaknesses. The Scyk isn't as fast as the other two, but it can flank, circle and cause significant damage from long range.

PS 5 isn't the greatest for arc-dodging. Sure you can arc-dodge most other generics, but most named pilots won't fear you. You are going to be doing a lot of guessing on where you barrel roll. Also, they get expensive silly quickly. A Tansarri Vet, w/ Predator and Mangler is 26 points! The equivalent Imperial, Saber sqd. w/ PTL & ATs, will run a circles around you and not cry when a turret is across the table.

The Tansarri Veteran's PS5 is the second best generic pilot for arc dodging, narrowly behind the Royal Guard Pilot at PS6, but ahead of the Sabre Squadron, the Green Squadron and the vast majority of other generics pilots. Most named pilots won't fear them? Are you really comparing a generic to a named pilot and saying "named pilot is better"? Bit of a redundant observation that, isn't it?

And while we're at it, switch Predator on the Tansarri Veteran to Push the Limit and trust me, the Sabre Squadron will not be running circles around it. In fact, I'm willing to bet that will be a remarkably even match.

heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Saying the dial sucks because it lacks a 1 forward is stupid. Just because you can't slow roll like a B-wing with a cannon doesn't mean the dial sucks. As Froggie stated, there are a lot of great things you can do with the dial. It's got everything but a 1 forward and a 3 turn. It's got the 5 k-turn. Has anyone used them much with that? I have and it's a great dial option.

Tie Fighters are good arc dodgers. They always have been. They defined arc dodging before the Tie Interceptor came out. While arc dodging is easier when you have a high PS, you can still dodge arc with a lower PS vs higher ones if you can predict where they will be. Also, the arguement of just taking Tie Fighters isn't an option when you are flying Scum.

What I think everyone is trying to do is take a list of only Scyks. You might find some lists that work that way, but I don't think the ship does that well in that arena. It works better when the enemy's focus is on something else. That means the ship works better when you have it in a mixed list. When the Scyk can go unnoticed for a bit, it can cause more damage.

The Scyk can also be a good ship without Cannons, too. Sure, not as much damage potential, but cheaper. Flying one or two of these guys in a list can work great. I'd rather have them than Z-95. The Z-95 has an uninteresting dial and is very predictable. If you have any experience with various Tie Fighters you know how good an agile ship with 2 attack can be. OH, I don't mean Ties in formation. I mean agile ships actually swarming around an enemy. These little guys can be ignored, but you suddenly find yourself at R1 of a guy that you can't shoot and he's got a TL and Focus on you.

I think they are costed fine. I don't think they suck. I don't think looking at tournament results is the best way to measure it.

They suck even in casual in my experience. HLC makes them way overpriced for the durability they bring to the table. Anybody with a brain pops them like zits when they appear.

The lack of 1 forward is the biggest negative of the ship as well.

The fact they never even make a showing at tournaments says a lot. You can look at tournament tables and get an idea of what ships are effective. Sure the results are skewed sometimes but the fact the Syck is NOWHERE to be found on anyone's tournament list does show its NOT an effective ship. (Unfixed tie advanced is a good example of this as well)

This ship sucks period. I have 6 LOL....... Learned a lesson there to wait till the wave settles out a bit before jumping in on big purchases.

I wouldn't say they suck, but they are close to being the pre-buff Tie Advanced of Scum.

So yeah, maybe they do suck.

The Tansarri Veteran's PS5 is the second best generic pilot for arc dodging, narrowly behind the Royal Guard Pilot at PS6, but ahead of the Sabre Squadron, the Green Squadron and the vast majority of other generics pilots. Most named pilots won't fear them? Are you really comparing a generic to a named pilot and saying "named pilot is better"? Bit of a redundant observation that, isn't it?

And while we're at it, switch Predator on the Tansarri Veteran to Push the Limit and trust me, the Sabre Squadron will not be running circles around it. In fact, I'm willing to bet that will be a remarkably even match.

You'll be stuck to banks to clear the stress. You'll be fairly predictable with the barrel roll being the only post maneuver adjustment. While the Interceptor is fairly predictable in its hard turns, its boost and barrel can put it in a lot of different places. Also, the Interceptor has the faster 4 straight green if it needs to bug out.

oh and Autothrusters....

I don't like this ship either.

If you need a cheap swarm ship, you'll go with the scum Z-95. If you need a cheap hard-hitter, you'll take the Kihraxz Fighter.

The M3-A is something in between and so totally overpriced (imho).

And I thing, Serissu is the worst named pilot in scum fleet, because she is overpriced.

A normal M3-A has PS2 and costs 14 points, a normal TIE-Fighter has PS1 and cost 12 Points.

Serissu has PS8 and cost 20 Points, Howlrunner has the same PS8 (!!!), has a much better pilot ability then Serissu and cost only 18 Points.

Here, I played them for the last time:

IMO Serissu's ability waaay better then Howlrunner's because green dice are much less consistent, and you'll need that re-roll more often.

heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:heychadwick, on 22 Jul 2015 - 07:04 AM, said:

Saying the dial sucks because it lacks a 1 forward is stupid. Just because you can't slow roll like a B-wing with a cannon doesn't mean the dial sucks. As Froggie stated, there are a lot of great things you can do with the dial. It's got everything but a 1 forward and a 3 turn. It's got the 5 k-turn. Has anyone used them much with that? I have and it's a great dial option.

Tie Fighters are good arc dodgers. They always have been. They defined arc dodging before the Tie Interceptor came out. While arc dodging is easier when you have a high PS, you can still dodge arc with a lower PS vs higher ones if you can predict where they will be. Also, the arguement of just taking Tie Fighters isn't an option when you are flying Scum.

What I think everyone is trying to do is take a list of only Scyks. You might find some lists that work that way, but I don't think the ship does that well in that arena. It works better when the enemy's focus is on something else. That means the ship works better when you have it in a mixed list. When the Scyk can go unnoticed for a bit, it can cause more damage.

The Scyk can also be a good ship without Cannons, too. Sure, not as much damage potential, but cheaper. Flying one or two of these guys in a list can work great. I'd rather have them than Z-95. The Z-95 has an uninteresting dial and is very predictable. If you have any experience with various Tie Fighters you know how good an agile ship with 2 attack can be. OH, I don't mean Ties in formation. I mean agile ships actually swarming around an enemy. These little guys can be ignored, but you suddenly find yourself at R1 of a guy that you can't shoot and he's got a TL and Focus on you.

I think they are costed fine. I don't think they suck. I don't think looking at tournament results is the best way to measure it.

They suck even in casual in my experience. HLC makes them way overpriced for the durability they bring to the table. Anybody with a brain pops them like zits when they appear.

The lack of 1 forward is the biggest negative of the ship as well.

The fact they never even make a showing at tournaments says a lot. You can look at tournament tables and get an idea of what ships are effective. Sure the results are skewed sometimes but the fact the Syck is NOWHERE to be found on anyone's tournament list does show its NOT an effective ship. (Unfixed tie advanced is a good example of this as well)

This ship sucks period. I have 6 LOL....... Learned a lesson there to wait till the wave settles out a bit before jumping in on big purchases.

Scyks have placed in top tables at regionals. You can't say that they are placing "NOWHERE". Also, it might have something to do with point fortresses being a better idea in tournament play, as well. I don't think it's a good idea to judge the Scyk on tournament placement right now. I feel the tournament results are skewed towards a few specific ships right now. It's like saying the Starviper is a bad ship when it's won Regionals and placed more than once. It's just a ship people aren't used to. Also, the fat turrets are better deals.

I think that HLC's on this ship are too expensive. You shouldn't use them. Does that mean they suck? I don't think so. There are Mangler Cannons and Ion Cannons. Also.......no cannons. Is it really that bad a ship with no cannons? I don't think so. It flies much differently than a Z-95 and I don't think it's meant to be a swarm ship, so you have to stop thinking of using it as a swarm.

If you don't give it a cannon, you don't need the 1 forward. Also, did you read what MrFroggies wrote? He says he's had very good luck with his list NOT flying it like B-wings. He's saying it's effective with cannons and without the 1 Forward. He's not some chump and is a good pilot. Maybe you just need to get creative with how you fly them?

I think that most people haven't used it enough to really unlock the power in it. Look at the Tie Defender and Biophysical that is winning lots of games with 2 of them. People said the Defender really sucked, but it's taken 2 Waves beyond for someone to really find it's place. I think the Scyk will do better once the K-fighter is out for Scum as it isn't meant to be the main focus of any list.

You'll be stuck to banks to clear the stress. You'll be fairly predictable with the barrel roll being the only post maneuver adjustment. While the Interceptor is fairly predictable in its hard turns, its boost and barrel can put it in a lot of different places. Also, the Interceptor has the faster 4 straight green if it needs to bug out.

Four banks and two straights to be precise, which, when combined with the Barrel Roll action can leave you in a lot of different positions.

oh and Autothrusters....

And what did you do before Autothrusters, exactly? Did you just not, you know, attempt to arc dodge at all? Do you really need that much of a crutch?

oh and cannon, by the way. No range 3 bonus dice for you. If it's a Mangler, then any hit you take is going to be a crit - enjoy. And what it the Scyk's taking an Ion Cannon? Go on - use Push the Limit on your PS4 Sabre Squadron. I dare you.

Exactly, some apparently people think that the only way to run TIE Fighters it to fly a big block of them with Howlrunner in the middle. Or to throw Academy Pilots straight in your opponent's face to deny them actions.

Er, no.

Look at Backstabber. Look at Mauler Mithel. Pilot abilities designed for players looking to avoid arcs and for prime positioning.

I have to recall that some people didn't play at Wave 1. To them, Tie Fighters are only there as cheap fodder. They didn't get to use them to do all sorts of crazy moves and outfly their opponent. The Tie Interceptor was out by then and they just haven't looked at the humble Tie Fighter enough. I tell you that I agree with everything you are saying. I love the humble Tie Fighter.

You'll be stuck to banks to clear the stress. You'll be fairly predictable with the barrel roll being the only post maneuver adjustment. While the Interceptor is fairly predictable in its hard turns, its boost and barrel can put it in a lot of different places. Also, the Interceptor has the faster 4 straight green if it needs to bug out.

Four banks and two straights to be precise, which, when combined with the Barrel Roll action can leave you in a lot of different positions.

oh and Autothrusters....

And what did you do before Autothrusters, exactly? Did you just not, you know, attempt to arc dodge at all? Do you really need that much of a crutch?

Arc-dodge them or pray. You'll be doing a lot of praying in a Syck.

I've never owned or flown scyks, they are just little ugly things and I was unimpressed with them. However they seem to be somewhat viable naked because they have evade and BR, as well as a PS 5 generic with EPT. That's a lot of stuff going for it. The PS 8 pilot allowing green dice rerolls is also awesome. You don't need a list of 5-6 of these things to be viable to 'save' it. I can see a 'miniswarm' of serrisu and two ptl tansarris working with guri.

The fact they never even make a showing at tournaments says a lot. You can look at tournament tables and get an idea of what ships are effective. Sure the results are skewed sometimes but the fact the Syck is NOWHERE to be found on anyone's tournament list does show its NOT an effective ship. (Unfixed tie advanced is a good example of this as well)

Not NOWHERE. Like I said, I took it to Plano. My list was regularly beating most of the builds in my local group, with a couple of troublesome counters. When my buddies realized how vital Serissu was to my squad, that's when I had trouble.

Playing against strangers at a Regional, I was in 27th (out of 115) after 6 rounds of Swiss.

I took 4 "heavy" scyks to Sacramento regionals. I placed 17th. I missed top 8 by loosing my 6 th game by 7 points.

The ship is very good, It's just unpopular. If more people bring it, it will win.

PS 5 isn't the greatest for arc-dodging. Sure you can arc-dodge most other generics, but most named pilots won't fear you. You are going to be doing a lot of guessing on where you barrel roll. Also, they get expensive silly quickly. A Tansarri Vet, w/ Predator and Mangler is 26 points! The equivalent Imperial, Saber sqd. w/ PTL & ATs, will run a circles around you and not cry when a turret is across the table.

The Tansarri Veteran's PS5 is the second best generic pilot for arc dodging, narrowly behind the Royal Guard Pilot at PS6, but ahead of the Sabre Squadron, the Green Squadron and the vast majority of other generics pilots. Most named pilots won't fear them? Are you really comparing a generic to a named pilot and saying "named pilot is better"? Bit of a redundant observation that, isn't it?

II think you are missing something in saying that the Tanarii is a better arc dodger than the Green Squad A-Wing. Due to being able to take 2 EPTs on a Green Squad you can get a Green with VI for a single point more than a naked Tansarii. The A-Wing has an extra shield and boost instead of barrel-roll.

Unless you are taking a cannon on it, the Scyk is just a more fragile A-Wing.

Look at Backstabber. Look at Mauler Mithel. Pilot abilities designed for players looking to avoid arcs and for prime positioning.

Both of those guys throw 3 or 4 dice if you get them in position and have decent PS for not a lot of points. You are spending 20 points to get three dice out of a PS 2 Scyk. Named Scyks have lousy pilot abilities, they really need a Backstabber or Mauler type pilot.