Hello Everyone

i have just recently played a full campaign, the shadow Rune i think its called ?, i have all of the expansions incorporated into the game , except the last one, manor of ravens.

i played as the overlord and i found it quite hard to win any of the quests except the interlude (which i only won because of an error from the other players side)

it seems like its hard to compete 3 minds ( in this case ) against 1 when it comes to decision-making while still keeping a steady pace in the game.

we did run into a few questions during the campaign and im trying to remember them as i write this text.

the first one is, when do you declare what you will use your surges for, can the heroes wait to use surges until after i have played my overlord cards ? is there a rule saying heroes first then overlord can react or is there a kind of stack system like magic the gathering ?

ill try to remember the other ones and write them down here, but for now this was the most gamechanging one i think.

Every rolls dice at same (ish) time. So if you have an ol card that's adding a shield or something and play it after the heroes spent a surge for damage, they can't take that back.so long, short, you can play cards that say "after the dice are rolled" after they spend their surges.

and by same(ish) time you mean ? theres an exception to the rule ?

the only one exception I see so far is Thétherys, who rolls dice before the attack and chooses after the target, then adds dices if the target allows it in some cases, and then the defense rolls occur.

but, let's say than excepting this one case, there's none

...you can play cards that say "after the dice are rolled" after they spend their surges.

1. Declare target

2. Roll Dice

3. Check Range

4. Spend Surges

5. Deal Damage

which breaks down more detailed to:

1.The attacker chooses what space they are targeting, and witch which equipped weapon.

2. Everyone plays "before dice are rolled" abilities in no particular order ("same time")

3. Attacker and defender roll dice.

4. Everyone plays "after dice are rolled" abilities in no particular order ("same time")

5. Figure out if the attack hit (realistically, this happens immediately after the dice roll is seen.) If it is an X, skip to last step.

6. If it is a range miss, the attacker spends any surges to increase range if possible.If he can't make it a hit, skip to last step.

7. All other surges are spent. Things like knockback (surge effects which do not depend on dealing damage) occur.

8. Damage dealt is calculated.

9. Conditions are inflicted and damage is dealt.

10. The attack has been resolved.

A question about this was asked regarding "Uncontrolled power" and "Mana Weave." Both are played "after dice are rolled." It's basically a game of chicken. The OL can play "Uncontrolled power" off of just the roll, and risk the hero not exhausting mana weave, or the hero can exhaust mana weave and hope the OL doesn't have uncontrolled power to play. Either way, both abilities must be triggered during the same window, which is before the surges are spent.

There is a house rule (which the first group I played Descent with used) that defense rolled dice after surges had been spent- this made spending surges on conditions risky, as they might be ineffective. However, it messed with card triggers, a bit. I don't really recommend it. By the rules, everybody knows the count of attack and defense results (how many hearts, surge, range, and shields) before any surges get spent.

2. Everyone plays "before dice are rolled" abilities in no particular order ("same time")

3. Attacker and defender roll dice.

4. Everyone plays "before dice are rolled" abilities in no particular order ("same time")

Think that should be 'after', right? (just to make sure there isn't any confusion)

Ha- yes. Copy and paste gone wrong. I'll edit my post.

We've always played where if an attack has surges and let's say it's used add 2 hearts to the attack, the over lord can play dark fortitude. I guess we've been playing wrong.

By same time (ish) I mean it's hard to roll at exactly the same time.

We've always played where if an attack has surges and let's say it's used add 2 hearts to the attack, the over lord can play dark fortitude. I guess we've been playing wrong.

By same time (ish) I mean it's hard to roll at exactly the same time.

It's not a bad way to play by any means, it's just not the RAW order. I actually rather like the idea that the attacker spends surges and then the defender rolls, but again- that's just not the way it officially goes.

The exact timing of the rolls doesn't matter- all that matters is that the "before/after rolling" phases overlap for both the attacker and defender.

and spending surges is always done AFTER any cards could be played ? by the way, what page in the rulebook explains the order you made in your comment Zaltyre ?

and thanks for all your answers all of you

I forget the page number off of my head, but its after briefly explaining combat- there is a detailed 5 step explanation of combat. Starts with declare weapon and target.

Surges aren't necessary spent after all cards, but at least all cards that say "after rolling dice."

It is important to note an exception to this- some attacks affect more figures because of a surge (fire breath, blast.) In those cases, the new defenders won't roll dice until after the surge is spent- and since they just rolled, THEY (but not the attacker or the initial target) would then have a chance to play "after rolling" abilities.

So I red rules today and I can't find a valid clarification that all abilities "After rolling dice" can't be used when spending surges.

Thx a lot, Zaltyre. You're amazing.

And sometimes I think I'm going crazy. Last time I've seen latest Errata there were clear definition about large monster movement (interrrupting with another move action). And afaik you don't expand large monster in such case. But now I can't find it!

If a large monster interrupts or ends its movement, it does indeed expand. However, it cannot interrupt for no reason- it must be performing another action or otherwise be interrupted by an ability like Nimble.

What if large monster use 2 move actions. Can it expand beetween them?

Yes. A large monster can take a move action, end it, and expand, then take another move action, end it, and expand. A large monster can also interrupt a move action to take another move action, and expand when it does so. It could alternately take a second move action immediately after taking the first move action, and so using both actions move twice its speed without expanding in the middle.

Well that means that the first time we played we did it right . So another little question: Familiars treated as figures doesn't die when hero controlling them is knocked out. But what about other familiars like Shadow Soul? The reason that I ask this question is that in localized rules (Russian) there is special sentence (in category Familiars Treated as Figures) that says somethis like this: if hero controlling familiar is defeated it doesn't have impact on familiar.

There is no reason that the familiar should be defeated. Note though that heroes cannot use their abilities when they're knocked out. So if a necromancer is knocked out, his vampiric blood will not be in effect, and the reanimate will not have the extra yellow die.

If I use one of us after that hero fails from uncontrolled power,

Do I need resolve one of us first?

If yes, will hero's new position cause overrange to that first attack(even melee attack)?

1) You'll have to ask FFG if the card can be played at that time. The answer is either:

-it resolves immediately, interrupting the attack, and then continues

-it cannot interrupt the attack, so it is not a valid time to trigger the card

2) In EITHER case for #1, since the attack has already progressed to step 2 but not to step 3, you could affect the range required for a ranged attack, but the attack has already been declared for melee, and there's no real range requirement during step 3 for that- just that you have declared a valid attack (which you have).

thx , i'll try to ask them

Hey,I got this from FFG

This is a timing conflict, so the active player would determine the order of resolution. If the hero is moved before resolving the original attack, then range is measured from the new space. However, because adjacency has already been determined in step 1 of the attack, moving the hero away would not affect a melee attack.

Thanks for playing,

Nathan Hajek

Game Developer

Fantasy Flight Games