See my signature for what FFG should do to nerf PWTs.

No, and no. I'm sorry, but this is an overpowered solution for an underpowered problem.

Ah PWT's. And Nerfing advance cloaking device, and upgrading the X-wing and TIE Advanced.

Man Wave 4 is so retro!

people can go to tournaments, play 7 turret lists in a row

Doesn't really happen, and in this case hyperbole doesn't help your argument.

At the MN regional out of 80+ people there were maybe a dozen or so turrets. In my 7 games I faced 2 turret lists, and I destroyed one of them.

The only thing I agree to as far as a nerf is Rydiak's idea. It forces the turret to joust if they want extra damage. Getting a ship to flank a turret should be rewarded, not discouraged. I think it could have an interesting effect on the meta as opponents could be more aggressive with flankers and PWT's damage output would be reduced.

Can we not just accept that autothrusters are a thing now? A-wings and tinterceptors can use them.

Keerax can use them. Eggboxes can use them... Starvipers...

Or hell, just mass ion cannons and walk them off the table.

See my signature for what FFG should do to nerf PWTs.

Yeah, I like it. I also like your point about getting the game back to dog-fighting. Isn't that the game we all signed up for?

The only thing I agree to as far as a nerf is Rydiak's idea. It forces the turret to joust if they want extra damage. Getting a ship to flank a turret should be rewarded, not discouraged. I think it could have an interesting effect on the meta as opponents could be more aggressive with flankers and PWT's damage output would be reduced.

Would potentially make Autoceptors all but immune to 2-dice turrets (not that 2-dice turrets stand a snowflake's chance in hell against Autoceptors anyway)

Can we not just accept that autothrusters are a thing now? A-wings and tinterceptors can use them.

Keerax can use them. Eggboxes can use them... Starvipers...

Or hell, just mass ion cannons and walk them off the table.

Kirahxz don't got no boost, daddeh.

Thoguht it could... either way Starviper can, each faction has something that can autocept.

this is overly time consuming and will lead to more shelved ships

Thoguht it could... either way Starviper can, each faction has something that can autocept.

They are all pretty different and have different kinds of expensive. Starvipers are the least viable due to the generics being a bit overcosted and only one virago.

Brobots then. The point is there is always something, turrets are nowhere near a huge issue was they were previously.

Brobots then. The point is there is always something, turrets are nowhere near a huge issue was they were previously.

Yes. Turrets have largely pigeonholed scum into brobots.

The only thing I agree to as far as a nerf is Rydiak's idea. It forces the turret to joust if they want extra damage. Getting a ship to flank a turret should be rewarded, not discouraged. I think it could have an interesting effect on the meta as opponents could be more aggressive with flankers and PWT's damage output would be reduced.

Would potentially make Autoceptors all but immune to 2-dice turrets (not that 2-dice turrets stand a snowflake's chance in hell against Autoceptors anyway)

Autoceptors are immune to everything besides lucky rolls. I almost threw my friends ship off the table when I didn't kill Soontir with 3 modified R1 shots lol

Brobots then. The point is there is always something, turrets are nowhere near a huge issue was they were previously.

Yes. Turrets have largely pigeonholed scum into brobots.

That's news to me. I've seen Y-wings completely mess up a deci, and anything that gets into Dash's Donut hole (hahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaahahahhahaa) by penetrating his defences (guffaw) can utterly ream him.(k i'll stop).

If Dash is wearing protection, (mango cannon) then treat as below.

So that leaves what? Fat Bastard and Goldie? block and smack him. massed Z swarm, brobots, y-wing escort off of the table edge (or HWK) Bobafetting... HLCs at range 3 either from a spray, a bot or scynipers. (oh gee. 1 evade token, that's so cute)

Yeah big ships with engine upgrades CAN be an issue, but you can usually have some general idea on where they are going and either block or target. If you can stay at range 3 with a sniper, that helps too.

Also focus firing on the expensive fa/tg/uy will obliterate the majority of his list, so you know, there is that.

If your problem is seriously a deci... just keep shooting. for 16 hitpoints they evaporate quickly.

I thought we got rid of all the OMG TURRETS OP PLS NERF TO NONEXISTENCE people?

As for K-wings:

(Ywingace sometime ago)FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, IT HAS 2 ATTACK DICE, CHILL!!!

I don't want to come across as complaining about turrets. I'm just concerned with where the game is heading right now. I'm sure most of you have read the article Paul Heaver wrote on the K-wing (based on some of your responses), yes MORE turrets. Hey, I like winning as much as the next guy! I have the 3PO...er, CR-90 expansion. I'll let my eyes glaze over and roll some dice, yeah! LOL

Seriously though, I would much rather (as Andre the giant said it in the Princess Bride) have the game be more "sportsman like".

3PO isn't some "autowin" upgrade. And Paul Heaver doesn't win Worlds because he took an upgrade from a $100 ship. He won Worlds the year before with a B-Wing based list. He is a good player.

And while Fat Han is strong, and Fat Dash just yesterday won the TX Regionals in Dallas (btw, biggest regional event held yet), you know the list he had to beat? An HWK and 5 Zs. Only turret in sight was a 5pt Ion turret.

Just saying.

Has anyone seen Ribann lately?

Has anyone seen Ribann lately?

Could be, but Ribann is usually more provocative posting. That last post about Heaver definitely leaves it in the possibles though.

Maybe there should be tournaments with PWT's and ones without. I mean who really wants to watch 2 PWT's throw dice at each other until there's a winner? The more intriguing tournament (IMO) would be the one without PWT's. The emphasis back on maneuvering and out-guessing your oppenent.

Then we would have to have "no turrets, no Soontir, no Corran" tournaments shortly after.

You don't like one thing about the game. Removing it throws the rest of the game out of whack.

OP: It's interesting. But seems like a bit much.

My idea as stated before:

Only gain +1 attack die for range 1 when target is in primary arc. Then, when the mirrow lists play, flying and targeting become way more skillful. This also helps in End Game too.

Maybe there should be tournaments with PWT's and ones without. I mean who really wants to watch 2 PWT's throw dice at each other until there's a winner? The more intriguing tournament (IMO) would be the one without PWT's. The emphasis back on maneuvering and out-guessing your oppenent.

Then we would have to have "no turrets, no Soontir, no Corran" tournaments shortly after.

You don't like one thing about the game. Removing it throws the rest of the game out of whack.

And after those things are nerfed then we'll have a better game where swarms, BBXX-esque builds, and ships like the M3-A Interceptor, X-Wing, Starviper, and Defender are playable and low-mid PS bidding is relevant again. You know, normal builds with normal ships that don't ruin the game. Ships that get to move once, perform one action, and don't get 4 dice gunner FCS shenanigans.

Also, once Soontir gets bumped he dies. Fly literally anything other than a 2 ship Turretwing list and he's not much of a problem.

Damage mitigation is the problem, not the 360 firing 'arc'. Autoceptor Soontir demonstrates this. Find ways to keep ships from modifying defense dice or using evade tokens and fat turrets (Han, really) melt like a decimator under focus fire. Or ban 3po from non-epic play. Just don't try to nerf the turret mechanic. It's balanced, really.

I'd legitimately miss anything that gets banned apart from the YT-1300 and Vt-49 (except Oicuun; I'd miss Oicuun ), and the reason for my apathy to banning fat PWTs would have nothing to do with their perceived power (which is massively influenced by m.o.v's baffling lack of partial scoring, plus the fact that they're the easiest; most forgiving ship to fly across the multiple back-to-back rounds of a tournament)

the problem is the VT and YT-1300 are the only two ships where I feel like I'm playing less of a game simply because there's no way to influence the game state apart from throwing dice at them

As mentioned, Soontir can get blocked/obstructed/stressed into a very vulnerable state. Corran, while immune to such things with sensors, depends on a very limited stock of green maneuvers to keep up his R2-d2 and/or PTL durability which forces him to make some difficult choices in regards to facing + his firing arc (choices he wouldn't have to make with a PWT). IF he uses his ability, he concedes his shot next turn.

And, while Goomba and I will never agree with this, Dash needs to make the most of his ability to survive almost any matchup. Without HLC, he just straight loses dice exchanges with the main meta monsters, which necessitates abuses obstacles to keep them out of his bubble. Even with HLC, he just straight loses dice exchanges with IGs and has to really maneuver well to not only keep out of range 1 but out of their arc. Add a dependency on PTL (still vulnerable to blocking) and a very limited selection of green maneuvers, and you have a ship that can be severely limited by good manuevering on the opponent's part or poor manuevering on the player's part.

When the K-wing comes, its price and its sh*tty 2-dice PWT will ensure that its manuevering (mainly to position bombs/mines) will determine whether it's useful or dead weight

VTs and YT-1300s largely lose nothing from being outmanuevered or outplayed, and this is entirely due to having a PWT that can shoot range 1-3 at any angle without consequence. Sure, they have guaranteed defensive tech that don't care about them getting blocked nor losing their action for any reason, but these upgrades aren't unique to these ships. What is unique is the ability to move in any direction without potentially sacrificing any shot, as well as being able to shoot with enough dice to actually matter.

There is simply less you can influence when playing against a fat PWT. Without autothrusters, you derive zero benefit from approaching them outside their firing arc. When denying them maneuvers/actions by blocking them or forcing them through obstructions, they won't lose their shot (unless parked on an asteroid) unlike arced ships which could easily have their arcs facing the wrong direction. They lose, at best, 1 point of damage mitigation.

imo, the idea the fat PWTs are overpowered cheapens the real issue with them, which is simply that you, as the opponent, don't matter as much as you normally would. Just keep your arcs on the fatass and hope the dice generated from its guaranteed attacks don't **** you over. Without autothrusters, that's all you can really do.

Maybe there should be tournaments with PWT's and ones without. I mean who really wants to watch 2 PWT's throw dice at each other until there's a winner? The more intriguing tournament (IMO) would be the one without PWT's. The emphasis back on maneuvering and out-guessing your oppenent.

Then we would have to have "no turrets, no Soontir, no Corran" tournaments shortly after.

You don't like one thing about the game. Removing it throws the rest of the game out of whack.

And after those things are nerfed then we'll have a better game where swarms, BBXX-esque builds, and ships like the M3-A Interceptor, X-Wing, Starviper, and Defender are playable and low-mid PS bidding is relevant again. You know, normal builds with normal ships that don't ruin the game. Ships that get to move once, perform one action, and don't get 4 dice gunner FCS shenanigans.

Also, once Soontir gets bumped he dies. Fly literally anything other than a 2 ship Turretwing list and he's not much of a problem.

Yes, I played when low PS swarms of cheap ships were the strong build. There's no reason to return to that, really.