I wanted to throw this idea out to the 'collective' (I apologize if this has already been suggested). For a PWT (primary weapon turret) to attack it has to perform an 'aquire firing solution' step (something thematic seeing as how the turret swings 360). Something along the lines of roll 1 attack die- on a hit or crit result proceed with attack (basically 50/50). If a gunner/luke is aboard as crew, an unsuccessful result would count as your first miss so the ship would be guaranteed at least one attack. This I think is also thematic. Thoughts, comments?

P.S. This would apply to all ships with PRIMARY turrets- including 2400's with Outrider title. Ships like the Hawk and Y-wing would therefore be exempt since theirs is a secondary weapon. Or, if turrets are too OP (overpowered), it could apply to ALL turret based attacks. (Not sure if we should nerf Hawks at this point.)

No.

One minor flaw with the plan is if the ship doesn't have a secondary weapon or Luke/Gunner, that 50/50 roll could negate it's only chance to attack, which seems a trifle unfair.

Actually, it's rather a major flaw with the plan.

I wanted to throw this idea out to the 'collective' (I apologize if this has already been suggested). For a PWT (primary weapon turret) to attack it has to perform an 'aquire firing solution' step (something thematic seeing as how the turret swings 360). Something along the lines of roll 1 attack die- on a hit or crit result proceed with attack (basically 50/50). If a gunner/luke is aboard as crew, an unsuccessful result would count as your first miss so the ship would be guaranteed at least one attack. This I think is also thematic. Thoughts, comments?

P.S. This would apply to all ships with PRIMARY turrets- including 2400's with Outrider title. Ships like the Hawk and Y-wing would therefore be exempt since theirs is a secondary weapon. Or, if turrets are too OP (overpowered), it could apply to ALL turret based attacks. (Not sure if we should nerf Hawks at this point.)

It would hit hard K-Wings, Outer Rim Smugglers and other primary weapon turret ships that aren't overpowered.

I don't think turrets are overpowered for their attack (1 attack after all). But because they have few weaknesses. In the jouster/turret/arcdodger balance system that seems to be acknowledged for this game, it is that the overpowered turrets aren't just easy prey for jousters as they should be. They are turrets, so they are strong against arcdodgers. But they are also arcdodgers themselves, so they are strong against jousters. They predate on everything and are prey to nothing. They have too good dial, too few reds, and most of the time, they have Boost and/or Barrel Roll.

That's their problem. Not their single 3 dice attack.

To balance this out it could pertain to attacks outside of arc, and make the success 5/8 on the die roll. This is just an idea, refinement is welcome. I think most would agree that PWT's are OP at this point and need a nerf of some kind.

Most do not agree. Some agree.

More probable turret nerf.

When ever you make an attack outside of firing arc you forfeit the game and immediately give your opponent a 100-0 match win, because FFG doesn't know how to make a game by giving us OP tyrrets in $30 boxes with and OP upgrade in a $100 box that makes turrets untoppible and I know this because I am not a cheap pay2win jerk like Worlds Champion: Paul Heaver, because real X-wing players play with nothing but 4 X-wing that need to be fix because they are not as powerful as OP phantoms which just got nerfed thus they must be 20 points so I can play with 5 x-wings in a tournament and ahhh.....

#$&% it I'm just bring 3 of these and win every game.

Did I just put the worse part of these forums in a single paragraph?

Well, I think most would agree that this game should reward players for good maneuvering and out-guessing your opponent, no?

Well, I think most would agree that this game should reward players for good maneuvering and out-guessing your opponent, no?

Yes, but your solution does not seem to be an acceptable solution.

It isn't the end of the world. Just an opportunity to try again.

Maybe there should be tournaments with PWT's and ones without. I mean who really wants to watch 2 PWT's throw dice at each other until there's a winner? The more intriguing tournament (IMO) would be the one without PWT's. The emphasis back on maneuvering and out-guessing your oppenent.

Stop it. Seriously. Use a turret or don't - but don't complain.

Did I just put the worse part of these forums in a single paragraph?

You missed those annoying Assault Gunboat picture spammers.

By the way:

oh and those K-wings are so ugly they should not be allowed before they are out threads. I usually throw them in with the turret pile.

I'm not really seeing the over-powered complaint here. If you look at the ships that have a turret primary, they either have 3 dice attack and cost half your squad points or more, or they have 2 attack dice and aren't that much of a threat. To make a turret ship dangerous, you've got to spend some points on it. Whinging that the 360 degree firing isn't all that fair is superfluous. Turrets are for shooting 360 degrees, get over it.

Do I want to use a turret ship? If I want to target anything around me, then, yeah. If I want to outmaneuver my opponent, then the turret ship will stay in the box. It as simple as that.

I don't think making turrets that bad is the solution. The dominance of fat turrets is a combination of factors, mainly their ability to live through most of the game's jousters.

If you look at how cautiously secondary turrets are designed and costed compared to primary turrets, though, it's kinda funny. I mean the blaster turret needing a focus to fire?

I think the game would've been better if autothrusters cut the range 3 in-arc bonus and didn't require the boost action to get, so you could play more things into turrets.

Do I want to use a turret ship? If I want to target anything around me, then, yeah. If I want to outmaneuver my opponent, then the turret ship will stay in the box. It as simple as that.

You still need to with a turret. When it comes to raw power and health for your points, they're worse than TIE interceptors. Sixty points of ships, one three dice attack. They pay dearly for that three dice turret and have to make full use of it to get their points worth out of it. If you think their hit points warrant their high cost, look at the Lambda, the Firespray or the Hound's Tooth. Turret statlines are good but they're not 60 points. The turret weapon is expensive.

As a result, if every ship gets a shot every round, they'll lose to the ships that aren't paying for a turret. For the turret it's still all about maneuvering, you've got to shake those TIEs off and deny them shots or you'll die to their superior firepower. Similarly, the attacking arced ships also need to focus on maneuvers: they can't allow the turret to shake them, and thanks to upgrades there's usually an optimum attack range they're going for.

Turret on turret is when it gets a bit eh. Turrets are good, everyone playing turrets isn't.

Do I want to use a turret ship? If I want to target anything around me, then, yeah. If I want to outmaneuver my opponent, then the turret ship will stay in the box. It as simple as that.

Turret on turret is when it gets a bit eh. Turrets are good, everyone playing turrets isn't.

I think if you want a meta with less turrets, some upgrades that help swarms wreck individual ships would be really nice, instead of going after Han and Chewie, make their natural predators better- give swarms some dice fixing to reduce their variance. I think you'd have to try to make it specific to turret type 2-ship builds though. It'd be a tricky design challenge.

Wave 7 is trying that. I don't know how effective it'll be.

What you really need is a herd spook, like Wave 4 for TIE swarms or the phantom errata for phantoms. Something to scare off the netlisters without actually hurting the ship that much.

Wave 7 is trying that. I don't know how effective it'll be.

What you really need is a herd spook, like Wave 4 for TIE swarms or the phantom errata for phantoms. Something to scare off the netlisters without actually hurting the ship that much.

I hope Wave 7 helps in that regard.

One thing I will say is that I find it odd that people can go to tournaments, play 7 turret lists in a row, and people call it the 'herd mentality' and say there's nothing much to it. It feels like "I want to believe FFG made the perfect game". If so many good players play turrets, there's got to be something to it, even if people might say it's more of a tournament thing than a game balance thing, where the MOV scoring and general reduction of player stress helps the 2 ships(a turret and something else, etc.).

I don't want to come across as complaining about turrets. I'm just concerned with where the game is heading right now. I'm sure most of you have read the article Paul Heaver wrote on the K-wing (based on some of your responses), yes MORE turrets. Hey, I like winning as much as the next guy! I have the 3PO...er, CR-90 expansion. I'll let my eyes glaze over and roll some dice, yeah! LOL

Seriously though, I would much rather (as Andre the giant said it in the Princess Bride) have the game be more "sportsman like".

I don't want to come across as complaining about turrets. I'm just concerned with where the game is heading right now. I'm sure most of you have read the article Paul Heaver wrote on the K-wing (based on some of your responses), yes MORE turrets. Hey, I like winning as much as the next guy! I have the 3PO...er, CR-90 expansion. I'll let my eyes glaze over and roll some dice, yeah! LOL

Seriously though, I would much rather (as Andre the giant said it in the Princess Bride) have the game be more "sportsman like".

The K Wing isn't really in the same league as the fat turrets.

I don't want to come across as complaining about turrets. I'm just concerned with where the game is heading right now. I'm sure most of you have read the article Paul Heaver wrote on the K-wing (based on some of your responses), yes MORE turrets. Hey, I like winning as much as the next guy! I have the 3PO...er, CR-90 expansion. I'll let my eyes glaze over and roll some dice, yeah! LOL

Seriously though, I would much rather (as Andre the giant said it in the Princess Bride) have the game be more "sportsman like".

The K Wing isn't really in the same league as the fat turrets.

I'm not putting my two cents in until after worlds in November. I want to see what being flown and what's winning before I respond to another 'fix', 'nerf', 'patch' or whatever for PWTs.

Oh Gosh. Another one of those threads.