Phantoms!

The'yre cool. Don't deny it.

Even cooler now they've been balanced, so that putting one down on the board doesn't immediately make you cheesy. They deserve another look, don't you think? I've been playing with sigmas a bit, both bare and buffed (intel/fcs/spa), but what I really want is a build that lets a phantom run free, speedy and dodgy, like the thoroughbred it is. So, I present you with...

39 points

Phat Echo

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Sensors (3)

Push the Limit (3)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

If I'm reading this right, this combo allows you to begin a round decloaked, maybe look at your opponent's dial if you're lucky, cloak, ptl barrel roll, immediately decloak and take an evade. This combo would allow you to travel a great distance with various permutations of landings, while not giving the game away whilst your opponent is setting dials.

The great problem for phantoms now seems to be predictability, doesn't it? Your opponent sees you have a cloak, sees you're in firing range, knows you'll have to hop and decloak to take a shot, and can plan for it. This combo would allow you to travel 5 at a 45 degree angle without them being able to compensate in their planning stage. Uncloaked to uncloaked with a free evade, before dials have been flipped.

Anyway, over to you. What do you say, am I reading the order correctly? also, is this combo worth a ****, or is it just a good old fashioned gimmick? Thanks for reading.

No, damnit, I see now it wouldn't work. Your decloak window would be long gone by the time you got to advance sensor time, right? Curses.

Hi,

in an older FAQ it was stated:

Oh well double poop! Thanks for the heads up. Can't blame a guy for dreaming eh?

The great problem for phantoms now seems to be predictability, doesn't it? Your opponent sees you have a cloak, sees you're in firing range, knows you'll have to hop and decloak to take a shot, and can plan for it.

They don't know which way you're going to decloak.

They often do, actually.board edge, space peanuts or shot denial often cut it down to one or two, not three, in my opinion. Sometime you can get a nice position where you threaten a block wirh a sigma, but also have a nice firing option too. Maybe it's user error, though, I'm a youngling in the ways of the phantom...

Thinking about it, you could still trigger ptl off of spa's free evade action, which would add the opportunity to barrel roll before moving, green maneuvering to clear stress, and take your final action - say, a double focus?

Recon Specialist (3)

Fire-Control System (2)

Push the Limit (3)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Not quite what I was looking for, but it gives you two focus, an evade, a barrel roll and zero stress, along with echo's loopy decloak

They often do, actually.board edge, space peanuts or shot denial often cut it down to one or two, not three, in my opinion. Sometime you can get a nice position where you threaten a block wirh a sigma, but also have a nice firing option too. Maybe it's user error, though, I'm a youngling in the ways of the phantom...

If your decloaks are being blocked you're being outplayed. You need to keep those options open so that your opponent doesn't know which way you're going to attack from. If they know for certain where the phantom is they'll take advantage of that, and if they were good enough to block all its decloaks off then they're almost certainly good enough to move in for that kill.

The trick to the phantom is to get your opponent to guess wrong as to its location. If you're allowing your opponent to box you into one decloak then your phantoms don't stand a chance.

Thinking about it, you could still trigger ptl off of spa's free evade action, which would add the opportunity to barrel roll before moving, green maneuvering to clear stress, and take your final action - say, a double focus?

Recon Specialist (3)

Fire-Control System (2)

Push the Limit (3)

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

Not quite what I was looking for, but it gives you two focus, an evade, a barrel roll and zero stress, along with echo's loopy decloak

What's the advantage of Barrel Rolling after the decloak with no information?

Thanks Blue Five, I'll bear that in mind and try to put it into practice. Steep learning curve on them eh?

The idea behind decloak->BR was to greatly increase your range of final decloak position, given the fact that a ps6echo is likely to forefeit firing first. Whether its to tuck behind a roid, escape to range 3, extend an arc dodge, or basically perform a dead stop, the combo offers some nice options.

Rec Spec pairs much better with ACD than on a Stygium phantom. 4 dice on both offense and defense both with focus. And if you have multiple ships firing at you or are facing a turret with gunner, save both focus for defense.

With regards to ptl, either you won't use it very much, because phantoms green maneuvers are less than ideal, or you'll use it too much and your movement becomes predictable, which makes for a dead phantom.

It's certainly worth a shot, but I thought I'd share my personal experience as an avid Echo pilot myself!

Here's my current Echo build which just got me to the final table at Saskatoon regionals:

Echo Decoy/FCS/Rec Spec/ACD 41 points

paired with a VI RAC

No, your eyes do not deceive you. I use Decoy!

Thanks Blue Five, I'll bear that in mind and try to put it into practice. Steep learning curve on them eh?

The idea behind decloak->BR was to greatly increase your range of final decloak position, given the fact that a ps6echo is likely to forefeit firing first. Whether its to tuck behind a roid, escape to range 3, extend an arc dodge, or basically perform a dead stop, the combo offers some nice options.

They have one now. The change they made removed their reactionary ability, turning cloak into an actual cloak rather than a long range barrel roll. This didn't power them down (four dice is four dice) but made them far less forgiving. What was once one of the consistent ships loved by the mainstream meta is now a gambler and player of mind games.

Decloak BR does improve the range of your final decloak, but your opponent can still guess where you're going. If you decloak after moving then you can barrel roll after seeing where everyone of lower pilot skill has gone, giving you reactionary ability. For ships that rely on not being shot at, reactionary ability can mean the difference between being victorious and and being angular scrap because it can compensate for mistakes. And the phantom by and large no longer forgives mistakes.

The beauty of the phantom errata (decloak after dials are set but before ships are moved) is that you know which decloaks are blocked before you move and can plan accordingly. Before, you'd all too often set a hard 1 and then work out where to go when you move. It sets the phantom out as a ship of its own and separates it from the TIE interceptor. The TIE interceptor can react to enemy moves with its boost and barrel combo. The TIE phantom is far more maneuverable, able to end up in all sorts of places, but it has to choose that place blind.

The new phantom lives off of unpredicatability. Like most other ships the game is to guess where the other ships will go and move to the optimal postion. It has a far wider range of positions than other ships, but it comes at a steep cost if it gets its maneuver wrong and finds three X-wings pointing all twelve barrels at it with its cloak down. The cloak itself also isn't invunerable: green dice fail and it only takes four hits to bust this ghost.

Usually when you set a dial you've got a target ship you want to get a shot on. Look at all your available decloak positions (including not decloaking) and see what maneuvers give you shots on where you think that ship is going to go, and more importantly what maneuvers don't give enemy ships shots. Identify as many as you can, because your opponent is doing the same thing. If they predicts the phantom's move he catches it with its trousers down: while decloaked your very expensive ship has the defensive stats of a Z-95.

Your opponent can choose to spread their ships out, meaning they're likely to get a shot but unlikely to be able to focus fire on you, or they can guess your final position and go for it. If they guess where you're going you're in trouble. The trick to the new phantom is thinking of the decloak as part of your maneuver: you're essentially choosing two dials. Pick an overall maneuver your opponent didn't anticipate. The more you've got and the further apart from each other they are, the less likely your opponent will guess right.

To fly the new phantom you've got to think like a phantom hunter.

No, damnit, I see now it wouldn't work. Your decloak window would be long gone by the time you got to advance sensor time, right? Curses.

It's always a good thing when you see your mistakes before others can point them out to you.

With the SPA you could Decloak, trigger the free Evade Action and then use that to trigger PtL allowing you another action. At this time you'd be stressed so Advanced Sensors aren't going to do you much good although you could clear your stress with a green and then perform your standard action. You aren't going to be able to double Focus.

Phatnoms! Is this build legit?

Phat Noms ... and here I thought this thread was about urban music styled snacks...

I recently played the new phantom and I had no problem with the change, other than remembering to decloak timing. In a open vacuum it's not hard to deal with their movement tricks. But in game, there are rocks, blockers, and placement. Once these factors are accounted for, they fly well. IMO.

Rico!

Phat Noms ... and here I thought this thread was about urban music styled snacks...

But this thread IS about Phat Noms. The question is do I go for the Rickies crew or Snoops system upgrade???

Played two games today with my weird echo build against fat Han:

“Echo” (38) TIE Phantom (30),

Intelligence Agent (1),

Fire-Control System (2),

Push the Limit (3),

Stygium Particle Accelerator (2)

The results were ... mixed

The good:

1) An intel agent peek, followed by a decloak forward with a barrel roll allowed me to block Han's wingman, and then move to block Han too in one round, freezing his squad in place and denying a shot on echo! Sweet.

2) Both initial engagements left Echo virtually unharmed - the extra action allows you to auto-take focus evade, which is lovely, along with a free BR.

3) A sideways decloak w/barrel roll took me clear of two arcs very nicely, while also freaking out my opponent a bit

4) on a good round you're getting to perform every one of your possible actions - roll, evade, tl & focus - and it feels pretty bad ass.

The bad: 1) It's highly situational. Lovely coming out of a cloak (decloak, BR, evade, green maneuver to clear stress, and focus) but a pain in the ass if you're forced to cloak after PTL, as it makes you predictable coming out, as well as denying your free evade action.

2) four green maneuvers ain't too sweet with PTL, I must admit. Echo's forward decloak with a reverse BR, followed by a 2 bank, makes for a pretty tight turn, but still, not optimal.

3) Intel agent was only meaningful a few times per game.

4) Echo died one round from some shots from a low-ps pilot. At which point I found myself wishing I'd stopped this silliness and taken ACD

5) SPA makes your intentions obvious - using your action to cloak feels clunky, and telegraphs your intent to turtle up. Predictable is bad.

Blue Five, many thanks for your posts on flying phantoms, your experience is really appreciated, as is your willingness to help out a phantom apprentice

I can see that the clearest weakness of my build is indeed predictability, and by your reckoning, that's a serious weakness indeed.

The trick to the new phantom is thinking of the decloak as part of your maneuver: you're essentially choosing two dials.

... Great stuff.