Our group has a trandoshan doctor, so of course whether or not the claws apply to pressure point damage came up.

He thought that big giant claws might not be so good for precise nerve cluster pinching or whatever, so agreed to not apply the +1 Brawl. However now we're wondering whether thats the right way to read it. Also, can trandoshans use brass knuckles with their claws?

I suppose ultimately, is whether the +1 damage was meant to apply to using claws during unarmed attacks, or whether claws are "magic" that just make all weapons that use the brawl stat better.

To be honest, I don't really see the need for any distinction; trandoisan knuckle dusters will be made for Trandosian hands. Thus it should provide it's bonus's as is approiate. After all, the only attack more harmful then a pair of knuckle dusters are a bunch of brass spikes mounted on heavy hands. Needless to say the result is quite nasty. Same with anything really; no matter what covering you put on, it will probably be designed for trandosian physiology in mind.

It may not be RAW, but I treat the claws as a Brawl weapon that does +1 Damage with Critical 3. This means that they do not stack with other Brawl weapons, and they cannot be used with Pressure Point.

LordBiscuit. It was my thought that the intent for trandoshans from a game balance perspective, was to give them built in brass knuckles. Having said that, from a narrative perspective, brass spikes on clawed hands wouldn't be more damaging than brass spikes on wookie hands, you're not hitting with the claws, you're hitting with the brass spikes right?

If you assume that they sell trandoshan gauntlets that enhance or support the claws, I'd totally be up for that. If it doesn't already exist, it sure seems like a modified item that "could" exist, which would cost appropriately more (brass knuckles are simple, brass hinges that can survive fighting maybe not so much) and just be some different weapon.

To look at it from an opposing perspective, I wonder if the +1 damage has nothing to do with the claw necessarily being part of the attack. You use brass knuckles and you punch them with your right fist and claw with the left, or threaten with the claw and knee them in the groin. Maybe the damage is meant to be this abstract combination of all combined deadliness. I still think pressure point shouldn't take advantage of deadly claws.

By RAW, Trandos just get +1 to all Brawl damage ever. Generally, I dont like the idea that one species being just better at something than anyone else could ever be... But then I realized that Brawl is useless crap compared to Melee, so it does not matter.

Until you get to Pressure Point, which is just plain weird - extra damage and all of it ignores all soak, what. It's admittedly useless against droids, but it can easily destroy a sealed power armor cyborg, which is a narratively weird.

Perhaps it's balanced around the fact that anything with Autofire will be better, anyway (except for concealability).

LordBiscuit. It was my thought that the intent for trandoshans from a game balance perspective, was to give them built in brass knuckles. Having said that, from a narrative perspective, brass spikes on clawed hands wouldn't be more damaging than brass spikes on wookie hands, you're not hitting with the claws, you're hitting with the brass spikes right?

Not really, as an round is meant to repersent any amount of time between half a minute to several minutes. That means each attack isn't so much a single swing of the blade but an attempt to use all the tools at your dispoal to attack with a impliment of your choice over a period of time. Thus there is ample time to use both the claws and batter away at the back hand, thus over time a +2 damage benifit is earned.

It's either that; or you can assume that no brawl weapons were ever designed for trandosian use, thus it's useless unless seeking other benifits. Personally I believe thats a bit silly; since I imagine trandosians would have made weapons that enhanced their physical capabilties, especially for hunting wookies.

It's same with shock gloves, Vanblades and other weapons. Most sentiant creatures don't have claws in this universe, but trandosians do and would have designed counterparts to work with them most logically. Of course this also means they can't just pick up anyone's brass knuckles and use them; because they are incompatable with them. But considering how they have two fairly poor perks (one is a condictional damage boost, the second is a slight enhanced natural recovery and limb recovery over a month. Which is kind of nice but limb loss is fairly unusual in my experience, half of the time buying a cybernetic and having a story to go with it is more interesting.) I'm generally inclined to rule the other way in which they can use the +1 brawl bonus; but they actually have to buy them to order since not any old set would do.

In short; their racial benifit should have some advantage. The house rules would actually turn their racial quaility into an obivous disadvantage.

As for pressure point I always saw it as a fairly stupid talent that often clashed with a common sense; sure in the intended marial artist role it makes a little sense, otherwise it only exists for Spock fantasys and punching out Rancors.

LordBiscuit. It was my thought that the intent for trandoshans from a game balance perspective, was to give them built in brass knuckles. Having said that, from a narrative perspective, brass spikes on clawed hands wouldn't be more damaging than brass spikes on wookie hands, you're not hitting with the claws, you're hitting with the brass spikes right?

Not really, as an round is meant to repersent any amount of time between half a minute to several minutes. That means each attack isn't so much a single swing of the blade but an attempt to use all the tools at your dispoal to attack with a impliment of your choice over a period of time. Thus there is ample time to use both the claws and batter away at the back hand, thus over time a +2 damage benifit is earned.

It's either that; or you can assume that no brawl weapons were ever designed for trandosian use, thus it's useless unless seeking other benifits. Personally I believe thats a bit silly; since I imagine trandosians would have made weapons that enhanced their physical capabilties, especially for hunting wookies.

It's same with shock gloves, Vanblades and other weapons. Most sentiant creatures don't have claws in this universe, but trandosians do and would have designed counterparts to work with them most logically. Of course this also means they can't just pick up anyone's brass knuckles and use them; because they are incompatable with them. But considering how they have two fairly poor perks (one is a condictional damage boost, the second is a slight enhanced natural recovery and limb recovery over a month. Which is kind of nice but limb loss is fairly unusual in my experience, half of the time buying a cybernetic and having a story to go with it is more interesting.) I'm generally inclined to rule the other way in which they can use the +1 brawl bonus; but they actually have to buy them to order since not any old set would do.

In short; their racial benifit should have some advantage. The house rules would actually turn their racial quaility into an obivous disadvantage.

As for pressure point I always saw it as a fairly stupid talent that often clashed with a common sense; sure in the intended marial artist role it makes a little sense, otherwise it only exists for Spock fantasys and punching out Rancors.

The claws do grant an advantage when the character lacks another Brawl weapon. Even a conditional advantage can hardly be considered a disadvantage.

The argument that the combat round is long enough that the +1 from claws and the +1 from brass knuckles should combine into a +2 damage attack is flawed. If your argument was valid, then having two knives (both +1 damage weapons) should allow for a +2 damage attack.

I would say that the claws do not stack with other Brawl weapons. As for Pressure Point, he's got at least 3 Brawn, +1 Strain damage ignoring soak seems a little powerful. On the other side of the fence, those claws are a part of his hands, Brawl attacks SHOULD make use of them

LordBiscuit. It was my thought that the intent for trandoshans from a game balance perspective, was to give them built in brass knuckles. Having said that, from a narrative perspective, brass spikes on clawed hands wouldn't be more damaging than brass spikes on wookie hands, you're not hitting with the claws, you're hitting with the brass spikes right?

Not really, as an round is meant to repersent any amount of time between half a minute to several minutes. That means each attack isn't so much a single swing of the blade but an attempt to use all the tools at your dispoal to attack with a impliment of your choice over a period of time. Thus there is ample time to use both the claws and batter away at the back hand, thus over time a +2 damage benifit is earned.

It's either that; or you can assume that no brawl weapons were ever designed for trandosian use, thus it's useless unless seeking other benifits. Personally I believe thats a bit silly; since I imagine trandosians would have made weapons that enhanced their physical capabilties, especially for hunting wookies.

It's same with shock gloves, Vanblades and other weapons. Most sentiant creatures don't have claws in this universe, but trandosians do and would have designed counterparts to work with them most logically. Of course this also means they can't just pick up anyone's brass knuckles and use them; because they are incompatable with them. But considering how they have two fairly poor perks (one is a condictional damage boost, the second is a slight enhanced natural recovery and limb recovery over a month. Which is kind of nice but limb loss is fairly unusual in my experience, half of the time buying a cybernetic and having a story to go with it is more interesting.) I'm generally inclined to rule the other way in which they can use the +1 brawl bonus; but they actually have to buy them to order since not any old set would do.

In short; their racial benifit should have some advantage. The house rules would actually turn their racial quaility into an obivous disadvantage.

As for pressure point I always saw it as a fairly stupid talent that often clashed with a common sense; sure in the intended marial artist role it makes a little sense, otherwise it only exists for Spock fantasys and punching out Rancors.

The claws do grant an advantage when the character lacks another Brawl weapon. Even a conditional advantage can hardly be considered a disadvantage.

The argument that the combat round is long enough that the +1 from claws and the +1 from brass knuckles should combine into a +2 damage attack is flawed. If your argument was valid, then having two knives (both +1 damage weapons) should allow for a +2 damage attack.

It is if the advantage is never really used because of better alternatives. Which keeping in mind that unlike most races that have a minor perk also recieve 100 exp. Trandosians suffer a debuff to arguebly the most importent statistic for physical characters (agility) and recieve 90 exp as is par. Compared to the wookie's more general buff it does seem lacking. Ditto with rapid heal, nice without a healer; but rather useless if you have one or seek doctors fairly regularly. Which they will do most likely considering theres other members that don't regenerate.

Difference with that is that weapons never stack. My arguement is that why wouldn't have trandosians designed something that had their characteristics in mind? I'm a supporter of "Yes and" rather then no. Sure the raw might not support this, but does it really make a huge difference considering brawl is regarded as the weakest weapon group? Just presenting the alternative opinon.

It is if the advantage is never really used because of better alternatives.

Yes, opportunity cost. An advantage that does nothing (because you never have a reason to be unarmed), while taking the place of a potentially useful trait, is not an advantage but a hindrance. It'd be different if Trando stats were magnificent and their special abilities were just for color (like with Weequay and their pheromone messaging), but Trandos are basically just worse wookies.

Plus, Brawl sucks, so who cares. Only Pressure Point makes it worth a look, and that's all about how silly the talent is.

And Trando niche being awesome kungfu-medics is funny.

I think people are ignoring how the books are worded.

Claws is a special ability that says when Trandoshans make Brawl checks to damage opponents that they deal +1 damage and have a critical rating 3. It does not say unarmed, it does not say without talents, it says "whenever [they] make a Brawl Check to damage..." That means that if they are rolling brawl, and there is damage as a result, that damage is increased by 1 and they have a critical rating of 3 (remember, when presented with multiple critical ratings for brawl checks, the character always chooses which to use).

Human (Br 3; Medicine 3; assuming best critical chosen)

• Unarmed
  • 3 Damage, Critical 5, Disorient 1, Knockdown, Wound or Strain Damage
  • Preassure Point: 6 Strain Damage, Critical 5, Disorient 1, Knockdown, unsoakable
• Brass Knuckles
  • 4 Damage, Critical 4, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Wound or Strain Damage
  • Preassure Point: Not applicable.

Trandoshan (Br 3; Medicine 3; assuming best critical chosen)

• Unarmed
  • 4 Damage, Critical 3, Disorient 1, Knockdown, Wound or Strain Damage
  • Preassure Point: 7 Strain Damage, Critical 3, Disorient 1, Knockdown, unsoakable
• Brass Knuckles
  • 5 Damage, Critical 3, Disorient 3, Knockdown, Wound or Strain Damage
  • Preassure Point: Not applicable.

As for how and why... As per my usual point, it's a narrative game in which combat takes place over a greater length of time then the Final Fantasy style combat we have been used to for so long. One attack roll does not equate to one punch or one blaster bolt, it is a summary of an entire round of combat. The Trandoshian could easily be described as slashing across his opponents chest and then jabbing a hard metal plated fist into their opppoenent's face. That and the small added bonus to an already very unimportant skill is not something to get to up in arms about. RAW is very clear on the matter (for once) and only gets confusing if you try applying real world thought into it using turn-based combat ideas.

I’ve certainly been one to abuse the Pressure Point talent with my Wookiee Marauder, so maybe I’m not the best one to speak up on this issue.

But it occurs to me that the talent is called “Pressure Point”. And it’s pretty carefully worded so that you can’t use any kind of weapons with it — it’s bare hands only.

If you think about the Martial Arts style of pressure point attacks, a knife or a claw to that same spot wouldn’t have the same effect. It’s the finger touch or the palm grip in a very specific place and way that activates certain nerve bundles in certain ways. And it’s actually quite light pressure that is required. Too much pressure just crushes the area and doesn’t activate the nerve bundles. A blade or claw to that same area would just cut through and wouldn’t have the desired effect.

So, if you can’t apply a finger touch of the appropriate lightness without your claws getting in the way and adding extra damage, then I would wonder if you could actually apply the Pressure Point talent at all.

Just an idea. YMMV.