An odd little quandary I just had; can astropaths send/receive transmissions while their ship is in the warp? On the one hand, I'd say they can, as they reach into the warp to transmit, while the warp sort reaches in to deposit/bounce a message, and the Gellar field could "maintain an area or reality", thus it would be no different than the astropath doing their normal thing. However, the Gellar field COULD block you, and/or take you out of the network. I'm curious because, in my mind, as terrifying as the Warp does seem, it's where I imagine your ship will spend the bulk of its time. You might drop out for a bit, let your Navigator rest, maybe rotate to the next one, have some charts and measurements checked, and recalculated, and get some morale back up, even if you just stop in empty space, but realspace speed seems too slow, even here, to get anywhere you need to be, short of from the edge of a system to a locale (this might take days?), and/or back again. This could leave you out of the loop for a very long time, in a setting where your ship may very well get swallowed up, and never return. I don't hear too often about messages received saying "the ship is lost. Something terrible happened, and now we...", but is that because the ship can't benefit from astrotelepathy while traveling in the Immaterium, or is it because of the grimdark? Here's hoping this isn't another one of those moments where it depends on whose writing this week.

It Always depends on whose writing it this week

Astropahths can and do send while in the warp. The Gellar field doesn't really interfere with it to much so messages still can get trough, the same way as daemons still need a host in order to manifest. All the G field does is keep the ship from getting ripped apart by daemon claws the moment it enters the warp.

Hmmh, an interesting question!

I'd say this is very much a matter of interpretation, especially as I don't recall this ever being mentioned anywhere. I actually like the idea of a ship being cut off from communications for as long as it is in the Warp, but on the other hand .. if the Geller field does not interfere with the Navigator's duties, it seems unlikely it would interfere with an Astropath either.

Although there could probably be a chance for the transmission being corrupted/garbled? It's one thing to spot a light in the darkness, but another to convey a series of thoughts and emotions that are supposed to make up a message.

Perhaps the Geller field only acts as a "reality buffer", not something that prevents contact with the Warp altogether - much like psykers can tap into the Warp even when they're standing on the surface of a perfectly normal planet. Making the Geller field an artificial replica of the veil that separates the Warp from realspace.

Problem I have with not being able to comunicate while in the warp (even while said form of comunication USES the warp) is that would be no way to run things! You send a fleet of ships out who now are completly cut of from everything else and even the other ships in the fleet. You could only reach them when they drop back in realspace, but there would be no way of telling exactly when that would happen.

Problem I have with not being able to comunicate while in the warp (even while said form of comunication USES the warp) is that would be no way to run things! You send a fleet of ships out who now are completly cut of from everything else and even the other ships in the fleet. You could only reach them when they drop back in realspace, but there would be no way of telling exactly when that would happen.

Where you see a problem, I see Grimdark!

It actually reminds me of Master of Orion, where you are unable to recall a fleet in transit before researching subspace comms. But in 40k, it would also fit to how unreliable Astropathic communications and space travel are in general.

That being said, nearby ships could still use more traditional means of communication (instead of something that might get blocked by the Geller field) instead of psyker stuff, no?

Note that I actually don't think Geller fields would block telepathic communications, I just think it is an interesting idea!

I think if anyone were acting as a telemarketer, they'd be breaking some serious Astra Telepathica codes. The response from the Astra Telepathica would be a coordinated telepathy strike against the offender from dozens of astropaths, causing the offender's brain to melt. Of course this is more difficult to enforce in areas like the Koronus Expanse.

Perhaps the Geller field only acts as a "reality buffer", not something that prevents contact with the Warp altogether - much like psykers can tap into the Warp even when they're standing on the surface of a perfectly normal planet. Making the Geller field an artificial replica of the veil that separates the Warp from realspace.

My interpretation is that the Gellar field creates an area where the normal rules of physics are maintained so that the walls don't start dripping blood or talking. From the blurb this bubble is much larger than the ship itself.

Though it won't physically keep out warp entities they would probably be able to sense the bubble of stability and naturally avoid it as it would be horribly constraining to a creature used to constant chaotic shifts. Like a fish swimming into a pocket of air.

Using psychic powers while in the warp itself could be horribly dangerous and would almost certainly attract entities - Navigation I have always read as a passive sort of sensing the warp currents which would not attract attention.

My interpretation is that the Gellar field creates an area where the normal rules of physics are maintained so that the walls don't start dripping blood or talking.

Yep, that's along the same lines of what I was referring earlier -- although I have a different opinion about daemons avoiding reality, as they seem to spend a lot of effort breaking into realspace.

Regarding Navigators not actively probing the Warp, this is another good question. The Navigator article in GW's d100 Inquisitor game certainly made it appear as if there was a constant back-and-forth, if only because of all Navigators of a House being linked to one another, and even capable of influencing the flow of the Immaterium.

I've always considered the Geller Field to be similar to a Reality Anchor from Brin's Uplift universe. That the anchor maintains a hold on reality keeps warp natives from being able to touch it.

Well, it's good to know that, seemingly, your ship isn't an island in a sea of mute, while you are in the warp; I've whined enough, on other posts, about how difficult it seems to me for people as "connected" as Rogue Traders to stay in touch with their dynasties, business associates, contacts, and what have you, with the only way being Astropaths, and such, so it's good to know that they aren't cut off where they seem to spend the majority of their time, hopping from point A to point C (they planned for point B, but it IS warp travel, so you never know )

It does seem weird, then, that so many ships go missing without a word, if their astropaths can send messages while they are stranded in the warp, and I find it hard to imagine, even if the mechanics don't always hold up, that you can destroy an entire void ship, at least the light cruisers and up, with all hands lost, before they send out something. I suppose the message could garble up; that happens with "regular" astrotelepathy, under good circumstances. Might also lend credence to some people's assertions that your ship might not have any astropaths, though I really hate that idea, when they are the ONLY long-range communication option, unless the AdMech figure out something better, and I doubt they will, because they'd have to MAKE something (I know they do), and THEN share it with everybody (I know they don't).

Also sort of wonder; at one point, the Navigator Houses went all Dune, and became, for the most part, tolerated faux-nobles, with all the clout, money, and privilege one expects of that, when others have to behave that way. It seems weird to me, with how central both Navigators and Astropaths can be seen to be, for the Imperium, that the human-cellphones didn't achieve a similar move. Hate psykers all you want, but if you don't have ANY, you aren't communicating much past the horizon of your current world. With the right tech, you might reach the equivalent of Earth to Mars, and with lag that will SUCK, but that's about it. Wonder why the astropaths never managed, especially with someone like Malcador the Sigilite being the Emperor's right-hand psyker. Oh well, even the Navigators are often only tolerated, and often avoided aboard their ships, so no big loss, right?

It does seem weird, then, that so many ships go missing without a word, if their astropaths can send messages while they are stranded in the warp

Well, the Warp still has an effect on these transmissions, just as it has an effect on the ship's overall journey. If the currents are calm and the ship travels safely, astropathic messages might likewise get through with little trouble. If, on the other hand, ships get lost in Warp Storms or outside the stable corridors, then the messages might get twisted and garbled or redirected or absorbed entirely, much like the Navigator cannot work properly anymore.

I mean, entire Segmentae get isolated from astropathic communication in case of a Warp Storm, so ...

It seems weird to me, with how central both Navigators and Astropaths can be seen to be, for the Imperium, that the human-cellphones didn't achieve a similar move. Hate psykers all you want, but if you don't have ANY, you aren't communicating much past the horizon of your current world.

I think part of this is because the Navigator gene is so extremely rare, compared to Astropaths you can simply train from the thousands of "witches" your Black Ships pick up every single day. This makes Navigators a much more rare commodity, and perhaps they've learned early on to capitalise on this value. If an Astropath refuses to cooperate, you shoot him and get another. If a Navigator refuses to cooperate ... well, you might still shoot him, but it means one less ship capable of Warp-travel. And if they are as tightly connected as it sounds (what with all Navigators being related by blood), then the entire dynasty might start boycotting you. The more you squeeze 'em, the more they might choose to make a stand, and suddenly you face the dreadful prospect of consigning half your fleet to realspace forever.

I'm sure politics played a part in all that, too. Maybe the Navigators, on the basis of being related by blood, were just better organised to make demands. Or maybe the Emperor gave them more rights due to their value, whereas other psykers did not manage to get into this "protected class" and were thus subject to much more stringent controls.

Ironically, the isolation of Navigators might likewise be a point in their favour. The less they show their hideous and offensive forms in the public, the less attention they draw from zealous folks campaigning against eradication of the impure. As such, planetary Astropaths who deal with all sorts of nobility, military and civilian administration are much more exposed and thus more in the "public eye" than some Navigator who lives in a small chamber somewhere inside a gigantic spaceship.

Either way, by the year M41.999, I'm sure the situation persists only because "it has always been that way". Although even the Navigators are by no means immune from Inquisitorial scrutiny or purges.

There's probably ships dissapearing in the warp all the time. Sending a distress call rarely does you any good if you are in the warp. Also I think you need to be able to concentrate to psychically send out a message...kind of hard when GELLER BREACH IMMINENT! warning signs are going off.

As I recall, sending out an astropathic transmission isn't the same as sending out a radio distress and takes hours to perform. It doesn't sound as if it's reliable in an emergency.

Hmm, possible point. Several hours, a state of calm and contemplative meditation. I see your side of it.

Exactly so. The Adeptus Terra can 'make' astropaths to order (more or less) but the Navis Nobilite are the only game in town for the navigator gene.

I know no novel is the bible here - but... in the Rogue Trader novels - they dont even know where their brother and sister ship is until they retranslate into material space...

Novel 1

Novel 2

I know no novel is the bible here - but... in the Rogue Trader novels - they dont even know where their brother and sister ship is until they retranslate into material space...

Novel 1

Novel 2

Makes sense really.:

-Translated from astropathic comunication-

Astropath #1: "This is Ware Wolf One calling it's sister ship Guadalupe ! Come in Guadalupe! What is your current position relative to ours?"

Astropath #2:" We are currently in the warp."

Astropath #1: "Can you be more precise?"

Astropath #2: "Seriously? It's the warp you loon! I'll be glad if our navigator can spot the astronomican from here!"

lmfao - it was worst that that in the novel; they had no word no clue - just had to wait and cross your fingers that your allies arrive!

Very Grim Dark and beautiful!

Even better (read: more grimdark) Is when the warp starts effing with time as well as space. In a novel (I have forgotten wich one, It could be one of those) A ship that's part of a fleet drops out of warp at the rendevous point to find one of it's sister ships a burned out twisted hulk floating in space. But under orders to make haste they immediatly translate back into warp and when they drop back into realspace, that same ship is now there with them, fully functional and nothing has happened to it.

It gets funnier if you have stuff like an Ork Warlord encountering himself thanks to a Warp time distortion.

He ends up killing his other self because he wanted to have two of his favourite weapon.

Source: Codex Orks

Orks iz azum loik dat.

Like the group that somehow ended up in the realm of chaos on a daemonworld where every fallen warrior gets resurected for ever and ever and they think they have found walhalla/the best thing ever.

I did love that little gem from the codex.

Paradox abounds. If he killed his earlier self then how did he live long enough to kill himself?

Paradox abounds. If he killed his earlier self then how did he live long enough to kill himself?

Must have been his future self!

(still a paradox ofc )

No no no no time paradoxes! Not so soon after terminator genysis!

And besides with orks there is no paradox because Orks don't get the concept of "paradox" to begin with.

Humans, Tau, Eldar, Necrontyr, etc... They all stop and think for a fraction and wonder how this time travel deal works and in that fraction reality catches up with them. and you get a paradox and the whole thing falls apart. Meanwhile the ork is shooting energy blasts with his twin guns made of hollow tubes, scrap metal and bullets.