got the prize kit and inside the little league booklet it mentions the elder sign and what it is. the voting forms give the option of agency, miskatonic, syndicate, or mythos (which makes it so the card 'doesn't see the light of day, wont be printed??)

well here is the card

The Elder Sign (support)

Disrupt: When a card is played from a player's hand, remove Elder Sign from the game to cancel all effects of playing that card, and remove it from the game. (Cards removed from the game no longer interact with any game effects.)

As the (almost) undisputed masters of dusty tomes and forgotten knowledge, how can this possibly belong to any faction other than Miskatonic University ?

A card removed from the game, doesn't go to the discard pile ? It's the meaning ?

Right, Dadajeff, 'Removed from the Game' is sort of like being placed in a different SUPER DISCARDED pile.

Chick

i say we have counter spell and remove from the game like in magic the gathering...

very original (not really).

nice vs West and mentor.

Maybe can only be played against cards which trigger any effect entering play.... and not against Characters or Support cards which do not trigger anything entering play...

unlikely.

for me, it works like a counter spell.

look at the wording - it says a card played from a players hands... if it was to cansel a triggered effect, it would have said so. like court of yhtill, writhin wall or aldebaran ascendant.

the big question is - does cansel all effects of playing that card - does it mean, that putting that - any given card - into play is taken under consideration? as an effect? if yes, that mean it cansels playing a support or character card.

my big question with this card is it says all effects, does that include paying for it? say someone tries to use eibon by discarding a success token, does the token still get spent or not? what about spending resources?

I say the things you mention are cost, so I say no.

I think the wording is clear: "... to cancel all effects of playing that card.."

(v1.9) Card Effect vs. Game Effect
All effects are either card effects or game effects.
Card effects are produced by cards, game effects
are produced by the rules of the game.

(v1.6) Triggered Effects
A triggered effect is defined as any effect that follows
the text: “Action:” “Response:” “Forced
Response:” or “Disrupt:” on a character, support,
or event card.
A triggered ability is a triggered effect printed on
a card already in play.

(v1.7) Passive Effects
Passive effects are ongoing effects that are not
optional, unless otherwise stated. Passive effects
and abilities do not have a trigger such as Action:,
Forced Response:, Response:, or Disrupt:
For example, Darrin controls Decrepit
Mausoleum. (R137 FR). The reduction it provides
is not optional.
Similarly, if Darrin attaches Feast of Locusts
(C117 ELD) to a character, that character is
immediately sacrificed when the conditions of
Feast of Locusts is met.

In my opinion only refers to "card effects" (which can be Triggered and Passive Effects ) that are activated when you play that card, not when you trigger an action of a card already in play.

Example:

• When you play The Terror of the Tides using their action, paying 3 to put in play from your hand, then you can cancel it, because the consequence of playing that is putting a character in play.
• When you drain a Domain to in play ToT then cannot be cancelled because its a Game Effect.

Of course its what I think that could be... IMHO

PearlJamaholic said: Published on 10/1/2009 - 14:55:03

my big question with this card is it says all effects, does that include paying for it? say someone tries to use eibon by discarding a success token, does the token still get spent or not? what about spending resources?

Only cancel the effect, nor the action of put in play the card itself... so when you have paid for, that domain remains drained, or the success token lost, in the same way as Court of Yhtill...

With the Elder sign, I understand you cancel a card just played by your opponent (to cancel not only the effect of the card, you cancel the card itself). You remove the card instead of entering it into play. You cancel the play of the card, so its effects (triggered effects or passives effects are cancel) are canceled and the card remove, like if your opponent had never played the card.

But the wording of the card is not a cthulhu's wording. In cthulhu's you cancel the effects not the play of a card. The elder sign wants to be a card to avoid other cards to be played (events, characters, support).

Three of these in every deck which can use the assigned faction.

For CERTAIN.

Extremely powerful card.

Chick

Dadajef said:

I am not sure If I understand you.

Pearl quoted us this:

Disrupt: When a card is played from a player's hand, remove Elder Sign from the game to cancel all effects of playing that card , and remove it from the game. (Cards removed from the game no longer interact with any game effects.)

Clearly says all effects of playing that card... and then remove the card itself. Doesn't look so clear.... Possibly would come with an explanation of the card, and all we say here is for nothing...

Dadajef said:

Obviously I don't know what would have to say or what want to be

I have to really wonder what the intended effect of this card was supposed to be.

As I read it right now, it would seem that not only would it cancel the card itself, but all effects that could possibly trigger off of that player playing the card that is being canceled. As opposed to current cards that only cancel the card.

However, it almost could've been meant to cancel any secondary costs a card would have. Such as The Thing Behind You with "Action: Pay 2 and return a Hastur character to your hand to put The Thing Behind You into play from your hand." Did they want it to cancel the cost of returning a creature? Or even the entire act of draining a domain entirely (think that may count as a game effect)? Obviously I don't have the rules right in front of me, but it seems like they wanted it to cancel more than just the card's effect. Though, the wording difference could just mean that they meant for it to be able to cancel any type of card that is played from the hand (which is the mostly likely intended effect).

Either way, Hatsur seems to be proper fit effect wise. Though I wouldn't mind it being a neutral card (or is that the mythos option?).

chicklewis said:

Chick,

I'm going to guess this card is only going to be allowed 1 per deck. Or even considered a special card that sits on the sideboard to be used once. I think that's how it's done in M:TG with special cards.

Bielius said:

To cancel just the effects of the card, the wording should be "When a card is played from a player's hand, remove Elder Sign from the game to cancel all effects of that card , and remove it from the game." You needn't to have the word 'playing'. But after the text say you remove the card, so if I play a character with the elder sign you can cancel my card (and not only its effect). I say it's not the habitual way to counter cards in Cthulhu (generaly you cancel or counter "effects" not the card itself) and it could be confusing for players. Ok, why not add some new way to counter cards but I don't find the wording of the elder sign very clear.

Dadajef said:

I understand better what you want to say... you can cancel any card regardless any effects it triggered if any ;-)

hmmmmm...a poorly worded card who's effect has no basis in the rule book. No, the date is correct, no time traveling here.

Well, at least it will be a neutral card so all can use it or at least it will be carefully placed in a faction so it doesn't create a massive power tip in the favor of just one faction.

What's that? Popular vote will bung it into a random faction with no thought toward game balance? A faction that may be popular because of their already superior card pool and this card will make them nigh unstoppable? I see.

At least it's not printed on puppy skin with kitten blood.

What's that........?

Donald10 said:

I'm quite surprised at your surprise on the low quality of this product. It's not like mr. French development treated us with superior and elegant writing and pinpoint balance...

Or might this be Hata taking over?