the enchanter OL has also the "the elixir of stone" that adds 1 shield on each attack.

but the better is still the Phantasm from Ariad's plot deck. With 6 range in melee and 8 on range, for 1 threat token, they are invulnerable for 1 turn (or each time you spend 1 threat)

Okay, so pierce apparantly doesn't change the defense results, although you ignore shields of the defense results. Maybe this is intended, it just sounds extremely rule-lawery for the OL side, so that I wonder if there is any official statement to back this up, because discussing this with hero-players would be kind of exhausting.

Okay, so pierce apparantly doesn't change the defense results, although you ignore shields of the defense results. Maybe this is intended, it just sounds extremely rule-lawery for the OL side, so that I wonder if there is any official statement to back this up, because discussing this with hero-players would be kind of exhausting.

I mean, shields "cancel" damage, but no one argues that the defense results change the attack results. The cancelling/ ignoring only applies when you're calculating damage dealt. The attack results and the defense results are completely independent.

it's not exactly "cancel" but more "ignoring".

So, the attack result is for exemple 4 heart + pierce 2 and the defense result is 3 shields.

Then, when dealing damages, the attack ignore 2 shield, but the defense result doesn't have changed.

Better this way ?

it's not exactly "cancel" but more "ignoring".

So, the attack result is for exemple 4 heart + pierce 2 and the defense result is 3 shields.

Then, when dealing damages, the attack ignore 2 shield, but the defense result doesn't have changed.

Better this way ?

That's how I think of it- the results are ignored, but that doesn't change the fact that they are the results. Supporting evidence:

1) When a figure misses, all the results are ignored. However, as Riposte clearly shows, there are still attack results when a figure misses.

2) For all attacks, any shields in excess of the number of hearts rolled are "ignored." However, if you rolled 2 hearts and I rolled 4 shields, the defense result is 4- it's not 2, even though those extra 2 shields get "ignored".

In the same way as above, when pierce allows an attacker to ignore defense results it affects the damage calculation, but it does not change the number of shields in the defense results.

Thx guys for clearing that up.

I hope this won't turn into a long discussion with the hero-players.

Thx guys for clearing that up.

I hope this won't turn into a long discussion with the hero-players.

I also hope that. Be up front about it- don't wait until someone attacks a deep elf. Also, if it becomes an issue, I recommend bringing up the cases I cited above- results "ignored" during a miss, and excess defense "ignored" all the time. Two cases where the word "ignore" does not involve changing what the results are.

This discussion has actually caused an interesting rules question. Thanks!

I was asking myself about the new kobolds.

if used with a plot deck and summoning and agent (let's say valyndra for example, and she must replace 2 minions and 1 master) since there's only master monster placed on setup, only one is removed, and all minions can be summoned by other master monsters ?

I've asked FFG but since now i haven't received any answer yet

The number of monsters on setup is not relevant. The group size for kobolds on 4 heroes is 3 masters and 6 minions. The fact that the minions are not placed on setup does not matter. If your agent replaces 1 master and 2 minions then you place the agent and 2 masters. Then when placing minions just consider the new minion cap is 5. This one threw me off for a bit after as well. Also remember only the 2 kobold masters can summon a minion.

Your explaination would be logical, I have tought the same at start, but being only on rules as written, I'm not so sure.

And about kobolds also, in a quest where thoses kobolds would be placed as reinforcement, since it's not setup, do you place them all or only masters ? let's takes an example. If the quest says "when [event] triggers, place the last open group (in this case kobolds) on the [tile]". Is it the full group or only masters ? If it's the "full group" says precisely, I wouldn't mind, but in case it's not ?

I agree with benoverlord about agents and kobolds- you subtract from the group limit, not setup number. Regarding placement after setup, RAW they would all be placed, but FFG may clarify differently.