The cost is 7 and you get to roll 4 die, but you are not permitted any Critical hits.

How is that any good?

Seems to me that Autoblaster With predator is the better deal- especially With Ibtisam or Keyan Farlander...

I particularly like Advanced Proton Torpedos on Keyan Farlander- HLC seems like the worst Choice..

What am I missing??

The chances of landing four hits with a modified HL are pretty good. Even a turtled soontir fel is going to find that hard to evade. Add on the fact that secondary weapons don't give free green die at range three, and you have the best weapon in X-wing!

As for no crits, well, that's what Ten, Rexlar and calculation are for!

What am I missing??

The search function/glasses?

On the very same page as this topic:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/182381-hlchelp-me-out-here/

What am I missing??

The search function/glasses?

On the very same page as this topic:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/182381-hlchelp-me-out-here/

lol, thanks..

1. Much better range than Autoblasters or Advanced Proton Torpedoes. This includes no bonus defense to targets at R3.

2. Easier to use than any ordnance.

3. Just because the initial roll converts [kabooms] to [booms] that does NOT apply to any re-rolls and still allows further modification.

Advanced Proton Torpedoes and Autoblaster are Range 1 only. This severely limits them compared to the Heavy Laser Cannon.

HLC:

4 dice are worth paying for

The attack dice don't exist in a vacuum, except against a decimator. Against every other ship in the game, you've got to go up against some amount of damage mitigation. Counterintuitively, that means that an increase in your amount of damage has a non-scalar increase in damage.
2 dice deal far more damage than 1. Against ships with high mitigation, 4 deal far more than 3.
It also means that you're shooting with 4 dice at all ranges, as at Range 1, your primary gets the bonus die. Unless you're running an HLC Scyk or YT-2400

The initial de-crittening happens before any other die modification

This means that any Crits pulled from Marksmanship, Etahn Abaht's ability, or even ones from a re-rolled Target Lock all get to stick around.

As with any secondary weapon that shoots at Range 3, your opponent doesn't receive the range bonuses.

Considering you already counter high-mitigation ships, this is the other reason why people claim this gun 1-shots Tie Fighters.

As far as Autoblaster and Advanced Proton Torpedoes:

Autoblaster

Is restricted to Range 1 and In-Arc: the smallest window of opportunity for any secondary weapon.

Is limited to 3 dice, which is often fewer dice than you would roll with your primary, so its not useful at every opportunity.

Only costs 2 points less than the HLC.

Mangler Cannon is closer to de-throning the HLC, but most folks are content at that point just to fire their primary.

Advanced Proton Torpeodes

Single Use, so worse than cannonry.

Required to have a specific action against their foe to fire

Required to choose their foe with their action before firing, so lose the opportunity if that single target is not in the zone of attack

Required to have another specific action to be used to greatest effect, without which it has less expected damage than firing the primary with that same target lock.

Smallest range of opportunity

Only costs 1 point less than the HLC

It is literally the most difficult piece of ordnance in the game, and the most expensive, while not having a pay-out that matches its terribleness.
That leads it to being a newbie-trap, and having the reputation of being the worst upgrade in the game.

Contrast it with Proton Rockets, with their ability to fire 5 shots, use a Focus Token and choose their target at attack, modify their attack with that same focus token, and, oh right, cost half the points...

As far as Autoblaster and Advanced Proton Torpedoes:

Autoblaster

Is restricted to Range 1 and In-Arc: the smallest window of opportunity for any secondary weapon.

Is limited to 3 dice, which is often fewer dice than you would roll with your primary, so its not useful at every opportunity.

Only costs 2 points less than the HLC.

Mangler Cannon is closer to de-throning the HLC, but most folks are content at that point just to fire their primary.

Advanced Proton Torpeodes

Single Use, so worse than cannonry.

Required to have a specific action against their foe to fire

Required to choose their foe with their action before firing, so lose the opportunity if that single target is not in the zone of attack

Required to have another specific action to be used to greatest effect, without which it has less expected damage than firing the primary with that same target lock.

Smallest range of opportunity

Only costs 1 point less than the HLC

It is literally the most difficult piece of ordnance in the game, and the most expensive, while not having a pay-out that matches its terribleness.

That leads it to being a newbie-trap, and having the reputation of being the worst upgrade in the game.

Contrast it with Proton Rockets, with their ability to fire 5 shots, use a Focus Token and choose their target at attack, modify their attack with that same focus token, and, oh right, cost half the points...

Well, geez, I mean, when you put it *that* way...

Contrast it with Proton Rockets, with their ability to fire 5 shots, use a Focus Token and choose their target at attack, modify their attack with that same focus token, and, oh right, cost half the points...

Well, a few clarifications I would like to add to that.

1) 5 dice, not 5 shots.

2) You do NOT have to even use the focus token, you just have to have one.

3) Therefore (as you said, but I didn't find it particularly clear just reading through it) you can modify your attack with it

4) While it technically costs half the points, the most common use of it is on the A wing, so it really costs 5 points.

4b) The only ships that can get the 5 dice attack out of it (without additional shenangians) are the TIE advanced, TIE Defender, A Wing. The A wing costs 5 points to put it on, the Defender only gains 1 attack die, and rarely makes the table as it is, and the TIE/x1 will bring them back to the table and make the Prockets devastating over there on ATC builds. Heck, Vader could technically push 7 damage through on a target... Given it'd require quite the setup and dedication, but they will be great there... for half the points as the APT.

One thing you didn't mention though that the APT does better than the HLC - assuming you setup the shot w/ TL+F, the HLC only gets 4 hits 77%. The APT rolls *five* 98% of the time.

But the main reason I decided to post in here was to discuss the "non-linear" progression of attack dice to damage. To simplify it a bit, let's assume the defender has 3 agility and no tokens, while you as the attacker has a focus token.

1 attack die = .18 Damage

2 attack dice = .61 Damage

3 attack dice = 1.22 Damage

4 attack dice = 1.91 Damage

5 attack dice = 2.64 Damage

6 attack dice = 3.38 Damage

For the moment, let's remove the 1 die attack from the discussion. And then let's look at the additional damage from adding a single die

2->3 = .61

3->4 = .69

4->5 = .70

5->6 = .74

So, while it is true that there's a non linear relationship, it's close enough that it can be considered to be one. To prove this, the linear regression formula gives an R^2 value of .9984 (For those of you who don't know what an R squared value refers to, this is really good. 1 is perfect, and pretty much anything over .95 is considered a good fit) with the formula: Dmg = .695*Dice - .8294. The first thing that I'll point out is that the formula shows that if you don't roll any dice, that you'd do negative damage. Clearly this is incorrect, but it is outside the usable range of the formula anyways. If you do perform a quadratic regression, it matches perfectly, damage = .0225 (dice^2) + .5147*(dice) - .5138, with an R^2 of .9999. But once again, the quadratic input is only .0225, which means it has a very minor influence.

TL:DR, you really should treat added dice as a linear damage increase.

TL:DR, you really should treat added dice as a linear damage increase.

You're oversimplifying, and missing a key factor in your analysis; the chance to deal no damage at all.

I'll throw an in-depth analysis of my statement when I get home from work tonight. Expect it around midnight or so.

I'd be interested to read your analysis, DraconPyrothayan. Honestly, some of the mathwing/mathhammer stuff goes over my head (I stopped at Calc 1), but my intuition is that adding dice should provide a linear increase so long as the dice are functionally identical.

I'd be interested to read your analysis, DraconPyrothayan. Honestly, some of the mathwing/mathhammer stuff goes over my head (I stopped at Calc 1), but my intuition is that adding dice should provide a linear increase so long as the dice are functionally identical.

A ship with X attack and a Focus, vs a ship with 3 agility and no additional modifiers, has the following odds (rounded to the nearest 10^th of a percent)

|| 4 Damage | | | | 7.7% ||

|| 3 Damage | | | 10.3% | 24.2% ||

|| 2 Damage | | 13.7% | 28.8% | 32.0% ||

|| 1 Damage | 18.3% | 33.9% | 33.1% | 23.2% ||

|| 0 Damage | 81.7% | 52.4% | 27.8% | 12.9% ||

1D 2D 3D 4D

The expected damage in this scenario is therefore 0.187, 0.613, 1.216, and 1.906, respectively.

Therefore, in this scenario, the first die is worth appx .183 damage, the second is worth appx .426 damage, the third .603, and the fourth .690.

That isn't a line, but a curve.

Altering the expected damage mitigation (e.g. giving the defender a focus token or autothrusters) causes the curve to be much more dramatic, but it only becomes linear when the damage mitigation is exactly 0 (as with a Decimator).

and the TIE/x1 will bring them back to the table and make the Prockets devastating over there on ATC builds. Heck, Vader could technically push 7 damage through on a target... Given it'd require quite the setup and dedication, but they will be great there... for half the points as the APT.

Advanced Targeting Computer only affects the primary weapon. The TIE advanced, arguably the best procket platform, now has antisynergy between Prockets and its almost essential system upgrade.

and the TIE/x1 will bring them back to the table and make the Prockets devastating over there on ATC builds. Heck, Vader could technically push 7 damage through on a target... Given it'd require quite the setup and dedication, but they will be great there... for half the points as the APT.

Advanced Targeting Computer only affects the primary weapon. The TIE advanced, arguably the best procket platform, now has antisynergy between Prockets and its almost essential system upgrade.

I think that's a little drastic, I would say it synergizes because for only one point you can buff all your primary weapon attacks before or after you've used your one time ordnance.

Example: At range 3 you acquire your TL because you're out of Procket range anyway. You use a primary attack with ATC, keeping your TL. Next round you get into range 1 of the same enemy you're already locked on. You can now unleash a fully buffed TL+Focus Procket into the enemy without wasting the last round's action setting it up.

This frees up EPT, unless you're a wheezy cyborg who wouldn't take PtL anyway.

TL:DR, you really should treat added dice as a linear damage increase.

If you're fighting a Decimator, sure.

The rest of the game is much more complicated.

Well, while I'd hardly call the HLC worthless, it may be somewhat costly for tourney play, at least for my tastes. The chief advantage the HLC provides is wearing down thick shields faster (b wings) or being able to land hits on high agility ships (3+ green dice). Unless you are facing either of these types of opponents a mangler cannon provides nearly the same damage output at nearly half the price of the HLC.

I was running Boba Fett with HLC and Darth Vader in a fun little game last night. Both rolled perfect reds and completely obliterated Dutch. It was beautiful.

I'm sold on HLCs!

The cost is 7 and you get to roll 4 die, but you are not permitted any Critical hits.

How is that any good?

Seems to me that Autoblaster With predator is the better deal- especially With Ibtisam or Keyan Farlander...

I particularly like Advanced Proton Torpedos on Keyan Farlander- HLC seems like the worst Choice..

What am I missing??

Sup Baud! It's Mang from WidowMaker. Finally got into this plasti-crack game eh?

HLC let's you roll 4 dice at any range, it's a steep point cost but shaving an extra hit off an opponent at range 3 is useful especially since they dont get a defense dice bonus.