"FERRETS ARE EVIL (AND UNSTOPPABLE!)".

or a turret firing evil space-faring ferrets

I bought my fiance a turret list to play at home. I haven't won a single match since.

ah but you get to play so it's a win for you

That's how I'm treating the situation.

Play Strip X-Wing

"Honey we are playing strip X-Wing tonight. Every time a ship loses a shield, that player loses clothes. What am I playing? I'm playing TIE swarm."

When I glanced at the title the first time (and I guess this says more about me than is polite to share, I read, "FERRETS ARE EVIL (AND UNSTOPPABLE!)".

I saw my error immediately, but by then the imagery of an unstoppable cadre of evil ferret was already in my head. I pictured one of them with a viciously scarred face, a leather eye patch, and real sour halitosis.

When I realized it was actually Turrets that were being described as evil, I pictured the ferrets firing the turrets.

Thank you for that image. I probably won't stop chuckling for next week or two while playing X-wing.

Stop playing. You clearly don't like the game and don't think it's going to change. Nobody likes complainers, and there's a lot of it on this forum.

Literally who are you?

Literally what kind of question is that?

Stop playing. You clearly don't like the game and don't think it's going to change. Nobody likes complainers, and there's a lot of it on this forum.

"I have no valid argument so here have some snark" I'll take this as you waving the white flag.

Your argument is that there's this terrible game mechanic you can't stand and it won't change because it hasn't in over a year. My argument is we heard you and you friends. The first hundred times. If you really don't like it so much, why just rail on and on when you can do something else you enjoy more?

Stop playing. You clearly don't like the game and don't think it's going to change. Nobody likes complainers, and there's a lot of it on this forum.

"I have no valid argument so here have some snark" I'll take this as you waving the white flag.

Your argument is that there's this terrible game mechanic you can't stand and it won't change because it hasn't it over a year. My argument is we heard you and you friends. The first hundred times. If you really don't like it so much, why just fail on and on when you can do something you enjoy more?

Yeah, this is like an example of the whole "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." sort of situation. Why are people trying to change the game if they really don't like it that much? If you're not enjoying it, why are you doing it?

And don't bring up the whole "don't tell me not to play" because that's not what we're doing. We're asking WHY are you playing IF you don't like the way the game is? The Fat Turret issue is only an issue in timed games where MOV matters. Otherwise, it's your choice to play with them or against them in any casual environment. So, either don't play them, or don't play the game.

There are other games, there are people who will buy your ships, and I'm fairly certain that FFG have heard your complaints and either something will happen or it won't. I've seen the 'I hate turret' group claim that they complain loudly and often because they feel that speaking up will affect the way FFG develops this game. I get that, but I don't believe it's having just that effect. It's also producing a toxic forum environment, where complaining over perceived problems for certain individuals are dominating conversations, affecting new players, and perpetuate both lies about the situation and the mentality that to win we must use PWT Fatties.

Consider this - outside the US the meta is incredibly varied and the regional and store championship data suggest that most people are using things OTHER than fat turrets. Inside the US, where the meta seems to be heavily focused on Fat Turrets, I'd bet you'd find the majority of the forum users and readers are here reading about how 'Turrets are overpowered' and 'I hate playing against turrets' and are deciding to take them.

Honestly. If this subject were to just die, and the complainers were able to move forward with some hope, you'd find this place more enjoyable and might look at the situation as less dire. I certainly do, but I'm outside the US and don't much mind the PWT mechanic.

jacob

Stop playing. You clearly don't like the game and don't think it's going to change. Nobody likes complainers, and there's a lot of it on this forum.

"I have no valid argument so here have some snark" I'll take this as you waving the white flag.

Your argument is that there's this terrible game mechanic you can't stand and it won't change because it hasn't it over a year. My argument is we heard you and you friends. The first hundred times. If you really don't like it so much, why just fail on and on when you can do something you enjoy more?

Yeah, this is like an example of the whole "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." sort of situation. Why are people trying to change the game if they really don't like it that much? If you're not enjoying it, why are you doing it?

And don't bring up the whole "don't tell me not to play" because that's not what we're doing. We're asking WHY are you playing IF you don't like the way the game is? The Fat Turret issue is only an issue in timed games where MOV matters. Otherwise, it's your choice to play with them or against them in any casual environment. So, either don't play them, or don't play the game.

There are other games, there are people who will buy your ships, and I'm fairly certain that FFG have heard your complaints and either something will happen or it won't. I've seen the 'I hate turret' group claim that they complain loudly and often because they feel that speaking up will affect the way FFG develops this game. I get that, but I don't believe it's having just that effect. It's also producing a toxic forum environment, where complaining over perceived problems for certain individuals are dominating conversations, affecting new players, and perpetuation both lies about the situation and the mentality that to win we must use PWT Fatties.

Consider this - outside the US the meta is incredibly varied and the regional and store championship data suggest that most people are using things OTHER than fat turrets. Inside the US, where the meta seems to be heavily focused on Fat Turrets, I'd bet you'd find the majority of the forum users and readers are here reading about how 'Turrets are overpowered' and 'I hate playing against turrets' and are deciding to take them.

Honestly. If this subject were to just die, and the complainers were able to move forward with some hope, you'd find this place more enjoyable and might look at the situation as less dire. I certainly do, but I'm outside the US and don't much mind the PWT mechanic.

jacob

I just read this as 'if all the complainers would just die, we all would be able to move on'. I think I need to stay away from turret threads.

Stop playing. You clearly don't like the game and don't think it's going to change. Nobody likes complainers, and there's a lot of it on this forum.

"I have no valid argument so here have some snark" I'll take this as you waving the white flag.

Your argument is that there's this terrible game mechanic you can't stand and it won't change because it hasn't it over a year. My argument is we heard you and you friends. The first hundred times. If you really don't like it so much, why just fail on and on when you can do something you enjoy more?

Yeah, this is like an example of the whole "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." sort of situation. Why are people trying to change the game if they really don't like it that much? If you're not enjoying it, why are you doing it?

And don't bring up the whole "don't tell me not to play" because that's not what we're doing. We're asking WHY are you playing IF you don't like the way the game is? The Fat Turret issue is only an issue in timed games where MOV matters. Otherwise, it's your choice to play with them or against them in any casual environment. So, either don't play them, or don't play the game.

There are other games, there are people who will buy your ships, and I'm fairly certain that FFG have heard your complaints and either something will happen or it won't. I've seen the 'I hate turret' group claim that they complain loudly and often because they feel that speaking up will affect the way FFG develops this game. I get that, but I don't believe it's having just that effect. It's also producing a toxic forum environment, where complaining over perceived problems for certain individuals are dominating conversations, affecting new players, and perpetuation both lies about the situation and the mentality that to win we must use PWT Fatties.

Consider this - outside the US the meta is incredibly varied and the regional and store championship data suggest that most people are using things OTHER than fat turrets. Inside the US, where the meta seems to be heavily focused on Fat Turrets, I'd bet you'd find the majority of the forum users and readers are here reading about how 'Turrets are overpowered' and 'I hate playing against turrets' and are deciding to take them.

Honestly. If this subject were to just die, and the complainers were able to move forward with some hope, you'd find this place more enjoyable and might look at the situation as less dire. I certainly do, but I'm outside the US and don't much mind the PWT mechanic.

jacob

I just read this as 'if all the complainers would just die, we all would be able to move on'. I think I need to stay away from turret threads.

Yeah, cause that's obviously what I was saying.

To be clear, that's not what I was saying. I'm saying that if complainers stop complaining this would be a more enjoyable forum, that I don't think they're accomplishing only what they might want to accomplish and those other things are not good things, and I think they're forgetting that they are voluntarily playing this game and don't have to if they don't want to.

Jacob

the problem with this "not liking the game" nonsense is that we would've been gone if we didn't enjoy it

thing is, the PWTs that are at all a problem are a mere 2 ships out of a huge selection, because the 2-dice ones just don't have any impact offensive speaking (i.e, using them is a last resort and not a primary means of winning). That's a very small portion of bleh amongst an otherwise exceptional experience

it is very much with hope that we continue to bring attention to s poorly conceived mechanic, either in that it'll go the way of the large ship roll or phantom, changes which took a long time to implement since FFG is infamous for how slow it is to change ****, or that tech'll be discovered that just curbstomps them off the table

problem is, they persist and in disproportionate numbers. as long as the problem exists, it needs to be addressed. we can stop once it's gone. PWTs are currently a part of the game, but they're not they're not ******* sacred and the possibility exists for their change.

if you don't like hearing complaints, you have the far easier option of just ignoring them. exercise it.

The Fat Turret issue is only an issue in timed games where MOV matters. Otherwise, it's your choice to play with them or against them in any casual environment. So, either don't play them, or don't play the game.

You admit it's an issue in competitive play. What is an appropriate forum to discuss that competitive play issue? This forum. Who is discussing that issue on this forum? Competitive players.

This thread looked like a troll, but turret lovers scared of a nerf will always try to silence those advocating change.

Because you have the power to create change in this game?

Well, I would say that we all have power to create change in this game.

The Fat Turret issue is only an issue in timed games where MOV matters. Otherwise, it's your choice to play with them or against them in any casual environment. So, either don't play them, or don't play the game.

You admit it's an issue in competitive play. What is an appropriate forum to discuss that competitive play issue? This forum. Who is discussing that issue on this forum? Competitive players.

This thread looked like a troll, but turret lovers scared of a nerf will always try to silence those advocating change.

I admit that for the players that don't like it, that's where the issue lies. However, that's not what this or many recent threads are complaining about. I see threads about "PWTS are BROKEN" or "Worst mechanic evar"or my favourite "A million ways to implement turrets and FFG chose the worst one."

I don't read a lot of people analyzing and showing the problem accurately, and that's what I'm bothered by. There are specific situations that a Fat Turret ship could be viewed as extra advantageous. It's not always, and it's not auto win, and it's not op, and it's not a bad mechanic... but the 'complainers' are all claiming it to be. If they all could agree, then I might have some idea that what they're advocating is change, but they are all different complaints and there's no way that FFG is taking them all at face value and then making sweeping changes.

So, the problem then exists - why are you all complaining? If you love the game, and want change - this forum isn't really the best place to make that happen, and certainly not with threads like this one or the several others that pop up every single day.

I've said my piece. I think the problem is overblown, and that future releases will make this a non-issue. I believe other issues will arise, like the super-fel issue, but that's just my thoughts.

Well, I would say that we all have power to create change in this game.

Yes, but not like what's been happening around here lately. If people continue to perpetuate stereotypical thoughts and patterns, we will continue to see a forum dominated by an argument that's not winnable.

Jacob

Because you have the power to create change in this game?

Clearly we do look at the change to phantom movement.

Look at autothrusters.

Look at the freaking tie advanced.

We can effect change and that's why your so eager to have us shut up.

Walking in to this thread like:

Because you have the power to create change in this game?

Clearly we do look at the change to phantom movement.

Look at autothrusters.

Look at the freaking tie advanced.

We can effect change and that's why your so eager to have us shut up.

No. I think that's attributing too much power to the wrong place. Complaining in the forums is not what made those things happen. Long term data and some help from discussions in person certainly had to come into play there.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here, but are you considering any of the by products of your attempt to affect change?

Jacob

You are going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view

... and the wattage of our power couplings.

I'm just going to say that I intended this thread to die in like five posts not become the main thread for this nonsense.

I don't read a lot of people analyzing and showing the problem accurately, and that's what I'm bothered by. There are specific situations that a Fat Turret ship could be viewed as extra advantageous. It's not always, and it's not auto win, and it's not op, and it's not a bad mechanic... but the 'complainers' are all claiming it to be. If they all could agree, then I might have some idea that what they're advocating is change, but they are all different complaints and there's no way that FFG is taking them all at face value and then making sweeping changes.

If we were to hold a single player summit regarding the perceived problems with the PWT in the competitive meta game, to establish a comprehensive list of grievances and potential fixes for them. Would you be a part of that discussion, or wait to read their final conclusions and either approve of or disregard them?

If that summit was instead informally held over a long period of time, with each issue being discussed individually as it relates to the rest and the larger game, would you refuse to participate, participate each time an issue is brought to the table, or only participate on the one issue you believe legit that you're waiting to be brought up by someone else if they ever get to it?

If, as each issue is brought up, the presenter isn't as eloquent as yourself or their message isn't as focused as it could be, do you assist in refining the the message, or do you write it off as another waste of time?

If that summit was to break for lunch, would you be in on the order for chicken shack, waffle house, or pizza. I'm thinking chicken shack myself right now.

If you expect people to remain silent on subjects they've a passion for, you're in the wrong place. Players create the content in this forum. If you want more of something specific from it, you need to put more into it.

I'm just going to say that I intended this thread to die in like five posts not become the main thread for this nonsense.

the road to hell, my friend, is paved with good intentions

Because you have the power to create change in this game?

Clearly we do look at the change to phantom movement.

Look at autothrusters.

Look at the freaking tie advanced.

We can effect change and that's why your so eager to have us shut up.

I yelled at my TV for my favorite team to win, and they did. Therefore, it was because of me.

I mean, the internet isn't going to run out of space if people gripe about turrets. If your enjoyment of the FFG forums is ruined by a turret thread or two it's probably your problem, not theirs.

Because you have the power to create change in this game?

and that's why your so eager to have us shut up.

I frankly don't care if turrets or fatness or MoV is nerfed. I don't think any need it and doubt the first at least ever will aside from new units, upgrades, and tactics to counter. It's not op now, just popular. It won't be op in the future either, just less popular. And the whiners can whine about something else.

I'm just tired of of the same people whining all the time about the same whines. Worse than my kids.

I frankly don't care if turrets or fatness or MoV is nerfed. I don't think any need it and doubt the first at least ever will aside from new units, upgrades, and tactics to counter. It's not op now, just popular. It won't be op in the future either, just less popular. And the whiners can whine about something else.

Yeah, maybe they'll start whining about all the whining that goes on in the forums.