I think you're an exception. Most complainers complain about Fat Han.

The discussion about statistics really boils down to the same thing. The percentages one sees of YTs and decimators are high - especially if you add them up - but it will be hard to avoid ships being popular to that degree, even if there are no turrets. The bare statistics do not convincingly suggest some change is needed, because some other combination of three ships might just as well become equally popular. What are we supposed to do if three ships happen to be in 60% of winning lists? Look for their common characteristic and nerf that? Of course not. The bare numbers do not suggest that turrets are a problem, even if they are clearly powerful.

However, the statistics do show that there's a good chance you will play several PWTs in a row. That kind of sucks if you don't like how the game plays when one side has such a ship. So keeping in mind the dislike I mentioned earlier, the statistics confirm what the complaining crowd is saying: the competitions have too many games that they don't like.

But as has been said before, it remains a subjective thing. My last games with turrets have been exciting enough. I'm too lazy to insert a witty internet meme here, but "I don't like thing!" comes to mind. Which is totally okay, but there is just not enough reason to really call the turrets broken on that basis alone.

However, the statistics do show that there's a good chance you will play several PWTs in a row. That kind of sucks if you don't like how the game plays when one side has such a ship. So keeping in mind the dislike I mentioned earlier, the statistics confirm what the complaining crowd is saying: the competitions have too many games that they don't like.

Making it a glorified, pretty form of Yathzee. (yes; exaggeration. )

I think you're an exception. Most complainers complain about Fat Han.

The bare statistics do not convincingly suggest some change is needed, because some other combination of three ships might just as well become equally popular. What are we supposed to do if three ships happen to be in 60% of winning lists? Look for their common characteristic and nerf that? Of course not.

Thank you!

I accept that and have. My campaign is against the incessant posting of complaints and turret nerfs. We heard them the first hundred times. The PWTs are not as hard to play against or quite as meta-dominating as they describe (it's always worse if you don't like something). The meta will change next Wave and they'll complain about something else. Maybe Conner Nets are broken and should be nerfed and FFG should have known and should have play tested it first and should have consulted the Wise Forum first.

But as has been said before, it remains a subjective thing. My last games with turrets have been exciting enough. I'm too lazy to insert a witty internet meme here, but "I don't like thing!" comes to mind. Which is totally okay, but there is just not enough reason to really call the turrets broken on that basis alone.

I accept that and have. My campaign is against the incessant posting of complaints and turret nerfs. We heard them the first hundred times. The PWTs are not as hard to play against or quite as meta-dominating as they describe (it's always worse if you don't like something). The meta will change next Wave and they'll complain about something else. Maybe Conner Nets are broken and should be nerfed and FFG should have known and should have play tested it first and should have consulted the Wise Forum first.

You seem really mad that people are posting about something you don't want to talk about, as if you can't just move on. You seem to think FFG couldn't possibly make any mistakes and that anyone who has any problems with anything is some kind of idiot.

However, the statistics do show that there's a good chance you will play several PWTs in a row. That kind of sucks if you don't like how the game plays when one side has such a ship. So keeping in mind the dislike I mentioned earlier, the statistics confirm what the complaining crowd is saying: the competitions have too many games that they don't like.

Or -perhaps- it gets boring-as-bloody-sin to play several games back-to-back vs PWT?

It would be equally boring to play Phantoms all the time. For example.

This *on top of* the feeling that no matter how well you fly you will be shot at.

Making it a glorified, pretty form of Yathzee. (yes; exaggeration. )

Note that you can deal with PWT, especially if you design your squad around this.

But should that really be the case?

If Vader in his Tie Advanced would be so powerful that a third of all games you play on top tables would mean facing him would it be fun to see him all the time?

or would you like some more variation?

I for one look forward to the whine about vader.

I recently invited a friend to a local tourney, mind you - he's never played X-Wing before.

Gave him my old Han-list, he took 2nd /18 place.

Last Regional event I took RAC/Fel, having only flown Fel extensively.

Took 5th /40 place.

Fat Turrets are fine.

Especially if you are lazy, as they reduce the entire Activation phase to keeping your dial open for Engine shenanigans.

The image post about flying fat turrets vs. flying interceptors?

It's true.

I recently invited a friend to a local tourney, mind you - he's never played X-Wing before.

Gave him my old Han-list, he took 2nd /18 place.

(Yes; I know I am poking a bit. Take it in jest please)

The turrets themselves are fine, it's just boring that everyone plays them.

What we need is a herdspook: an inconsequential change or release blown utterly out of proportion. If, say, Conner Net and Cluster Mines were heralded as doom to all turrets (they aren't) with endless complaint threads about its ridiculous-overpoweredness the netlisters would abandon turrets like they were wasp nests.

It worked with the phantom errata.

I think you're an exception. Most complainers complain about Fat Han.

The bare statistics do not convincingly suggest some change is needed, because some other combination of three ships might just as well become equally popular. What are we supposed to do if three ships happen to be in 60% of winning lists? Look for their common characteristic and nerf that? Of course not.

Thank you!

I think you're an exception. Most complainers complain about Fat Han.

However, the statistics do show that there's a good chance you will play several PWTs in a row. That kind of sucks if you don't like how the game plays when one side has such a ship. So keeping in mind the dislike I mentioned earlier, the statistics confirm what the complaining crowd is saying: the competitions have too many games that they don't like.

But as has been said before, it remains a subjective thing. My last games with turrets have been exciting enough. I'm too lazy to insert a witty internet meme here, but "I don't like thing!" comes to mind. Which is totally okay, but there is just not enough reason to really call the turrets broken on that basis alone.

I accept that and have. My campaign is against the incessant posting of complaints and turret nerfs. We heard them the first hundred times. The PWTs are not as hard to play against or quite as meta-dominating as they describe (it's always worse if you don't like something). The meta will change next Wave and they'll complain about something else. Maybe Conner Nets are broken and should be nerfed and FFG should have known and should have play tested it first and should have consulted the Wise Forum first.

Just as a neutral info. Last tourney here in Porto Alegre we had three turrets. They were Fringer + BB, Decifel and Deciwhisper and placed second, third, and tenth respectively. I had my money on the Decifel for winning this one (combination of squad and player), but my BBBBZ took it with a 3-1 after swiss (I lost to a double phantom + carnor 0-100, a very difficult matchup for my squad). It was the first "all wave" tournament that we had (we are currently limited to wave 1 + 2 national releases).

I am waiting for the exact squads so I can put it on list juggler.

I recently invited a friend to a local tourney, mind you - he's never played X-Wing before.

Gave him my old Han-list, he took 2nd /18 place.

Last Regional event I took RAC/Fel, having only flown Fel extensively.

Took 5th /40 place.

Fat Turrets are fine.

Especially if you are lazy, as they reduce the entire Activation phase to keeping your dial open for Engine shenanigans.

The image post about flying fat turrets vs. flying interceptors?

It's true.

/thread

But as has been said before, it remains a subjective thing. My last games with turrets have been exciting enough. I'm too lazy to insert a witty internet meme here, but "I don't like thing!" comes to mind. Which is totally okay, but there is just not enough reason to really call the turrets broken on that basis alone.

I accept that and have. My campaign is against the incessant posting of complaints and turret nerfs. We heard them the first hundred times. The PWTs are not as hard to play against or quite as meta-dominating as they describe (it's always worse if you don't like something). The meta will change next Wave and they'll complain about something else. Maybe Conner Nets are broken and should be nerfed and FFG should have known and should have play tested it first and should have consulted the Wise Forum first.

You seem really mad that people are posting about something you don't want to talk about, as if you can't just move on. You seem to think FFG couldn't possibly make any mistakes and that anyone who has any problems with anything is some kind of idiot.

I am frustrated, due to the utter abundance of posts about the same thing over and over and over again with no new content or insight. What's the point? We heard you.

FFG isn't perfect, but 1) they're much better than most posters give them credit for, 2) their product ideas far exceed those that posters usually produce, and 3) FFG isn't mini g the forums for your brilliant fixes to problems that either don't exist, are blown out of proportion, or already have a minor buff in the works.

But no, let's rail on. Again.

No zom4d didn't you hear it's us that creates all the changes in the game. Phantom nerf? Our crying. Autothrusters? Our tears. Ffg knows that it's always important to listen and cater to the vocal minority. How dare you assume that there designers and play testers are the ones who are making changes to the game.

Nobody's forcing you to read turret threads, z0m4d. You can just skip those two threads that impose themselves on your front page much like i skip repaint threads.

-image snipped-

please don't post that, I don't want to ruin my screen with bile again

-image snipped-

please don't post that, I don't want to ruin my screen with bile again

No zom4d didn't you hear it's us that creates all the changes in the game. Phantom nerf? Our crying. Autothrusters? Our tears. Ffg knows that it's always important to listen and cater to the vocal minority. How dare you assume that there designers and play testers are the ones who are making changes to the game.

If no one ever complained about the Phantom I don't think we would have seen a change. Maybe the play testers and designers get to play testing and designing fixes faster when the players point out problems?

FFG listened about the Scum/Rebel dial thing, they listened when we all complained about only official FFG mats being legal, I'm sure they're aware that a lot of people don't like turrets and there is a good chance they want to fix them.

And if/when they're fixed, the game will be better for it. Just like the phantom fix.

I recently invited a friend to a local tourney, mind you - he's never played X-Wing before.

Gave him my old Han-list, he took 2nd /18 place.

Last Regional event I took RAC/Fel, having only flown Fel extensively.

Took 5th /40 place.

Fat Turrets are fine.

Especially if you are lazy, as they reduce the entire Activation phase to keeping your dial open for Engine shenanigans.

The image post about flying fat turrets vs. flying interceptors?

It's true.

I flew Super HLC Dash and 3 A-Wings a handful of times. Once stupidly moved Dash within range one of my opponent's ships, felt my heart sink because I wouldn't have been able to fire with my HLC, and then realized I could barrel roll into range 2+.

Dash is super easy mode.

It sounds like z0m4d is so mad. Get it? Because his name is mad and he's mad and and and I'll show myself out.

-image snipped-

please don't post that, I don't want to ruin my screen with bile again

Tears, delicious, etc

Just wait for the Emperor to come out.

I've Come to Give Turrets!

Oh and if you want to fly your fixed firing arced TIE Advance and hope to win you still have to buy the $90 Expansion pack I come in. Sorry Vader.

Of course all people complaining about turrets should stop wining and learn 2 play, first by buying one of these.

Then by buying one of these

GUYS.

You know what screw it I'm not going to sit here and let this get any dumber.

You know what screw it I'm not going to sit here and let this get any dumber.

The implication seems to be that you will remove yourself from the conversation, and that your absence will prevent "this" from becoming "dumber"

Sick self-burn, bro?

You know what screw it I'm not going to sit here and let this get any dumber.

The implication seems to be that you will remove yourself from the conversation, and that your absence will prevent "this" from becoming "dumber"

Sick self-burn, bro?

clearly you don't understand implications well enough to be using them

WHERE IS YOUR LICENSE?

You know what screw it I'm not going to sit here and let this get any dumber.

The implication seems to be that you will remove yourself from the conversation, and that your absence will prevent "this" from becoming "dumber"

Sick self-burn, bro?

Not at all. I reported my own thread in hopes of getting it closed.

Obi-Wan wants to talk to you about fools.

Ugh, just lost a close game to a super dash list. Even with all his crazy ass abilities I had a chance, but his dice were better than mine which made the difference at a couple key moments.

I still hate fat falcons the most, but super dash is a close second I think just because he is basically the tie phantom of turrets. Great at arc dodging, while also hitting you like a ton of bricks. He's odd in that if you have a counter to him, he's super beatable, but if you don't, he's arguably more dangerous than the other turrets.

Decimators are annoying but I can tolerate them I guess.