I would think Kreiger that the 2 advantage ARE paying the 2 strain as 2 advantage could also recover 2 strain.

I would think Kreiger that the 2 advantage ARE paying the 2 strain as 2 advantage could also recover 2 strain.

Wow, we're getting pretty deep into semantics here aren't we?

Isn't semantics the whole contention of this thread?

Please let this simplification be enough:

You get 1 maneuver for free during your turn.

You can get another maneuver, during your turn, by doing any one of a number of things:

• Exchange your action for a maneuver
• Voluntarily suffer 2 points of strain for a maneuver
• Spend 2 Advantage from your combat check to perform a maneuver
• Be a Xexto (from Stay on Target). They get 2 free maneuvers every turn.

You cannot perform more than two maneuvers during your turn.

There are also ways of getting free maneuvers outside your turn, and these do not count towards your 2-maneuver limit since they are out-of-turn.

This is how the RAW handle things.

Wow this is what I wake up to.

Please let this simplification be enough:

You get 1 maneuver for free during your turn.

You can get another maneuver, during your turn, by doing any one of a number of things:

• Exchange your action for a maneuver
• Voluntarily suffer 2 points of strain for a maneuver
• Spend 2 Advantage from your combat check to perform a maneuver
• Be a Xexto (from Stay on Target). They get 2 free maneuvers every turn.

You cannot perform more than two maneuvers during your turn.

There are also ways of getting free maneuvers outside your turn, and these do not count towards your 2-maneuver limit since they are out-of-turn.

This is how the RAW handle things.

Except that isn't RAW.

That may be RAI which is the whole point of this thread.

The Rules state very clearly

You can get a second maneuver via 2 strain, under the maneuver section

Then in the Actions it says you can downgrade an action to a maneuver

It does NOT says "you can downgrade an action to a maneuver for free"

It neglects to say that anywhere. It is due to the lack of spelling out those exact words that are the issue.

I get that you guys like to quote and seem to think quoting the same thing over and over will get different results.

That is not how things work. Someone stated early on the exact wording from the book. The wording in the book is not in question.

What the question is...

Did they INTEND it to be free? or not.

As Written it can be reasonably viewed either way.

What is the purpose of exchanging an action and suffering 2 strain for something when I can just suffer 2 strain for it?

"A character may perform one free maneuver on his

turn. He may also perform a second maneuver by voluntarily

suffering two points of strain. [Characters may

also perform a second maneuver through a particularly

successful skill check, or by other means listed elsewhere.)

However, regardless of the source, a single

character may not perform more than two maneuvers

during his turn."

Maybe this helps you see why most of us see no cause of confusion. (or cause for freedom of interpretation, I'm not implying that you are confused)

"also" - in this sentence - lists several seperate possibilities:

1. suffering 2 strain
2. particularly successful skill check
3. or by other means (such as for e.g. listed under actions: you can sacrifice yours for another maneuver)

The other means could be advantages/talent/species ability as well.

What is the purpose of exchanging an action and suffering 2 strain for something when I can just suffer 2 strain for it?

Oh oh I know, pick me

Because I can spend my action just like it's strain to use it as a manuever, but now I don't have an action to use so I should think about it before I do that.

Sorry GM but there was a reason that I consolidated the paragraphs, that was to show RAW and RAI are the same, you accused us of seperating the paragraphs and treating them seperate. I'm accusing you have not being able to comprehend a perfectly straight forward portion of the rules.

Now ask the Devs your question and please enlighten us on the outcome of the answer given us as it seems you are the only one that can't comprehend the RAW/RAI but the rest of us can.

The other means could be advantages/talent/species ability as well.

The paragraphs covered advantage, the talents are talents that can override the rule, show me a spices that can override the rule there are none.

In the case of talents overriding said rules are not going to be used until you get to said talent, so they are written for beginning level characters. BTW what talents are you talking about?

Xexto - added in stay on target.

Species ability allows for 2 free maneuvers

Xexto - added in stay on target.

Species ability allows for 2 free maneuvers

I will take a look at when I get home, but I am sure there are stipulations to that species, like yea you have 2 free manuevers, but that doesn't give you 4 manuevers as the rules state no more than 2 per turn unless you you trade your 1 action for it.

Never said it gave 4. I stated it stated clearly those 2 maneuvers were FREE.

The other sections didn't state 2 maneuvers were FREE.

That word... FREE is the whole issue with this thread.

Never said it gave 4. I stated it stated clearly those 2 maneuvers were FREE.

The other sections didn't state 2 maneuvers were FREE.

That word... FREE is the whole issue with this thread.

I think you are over complicating it, the rules are as I and others have explained.

1. Action and manuever

2. 2 manuevers = 2 strain no matter what

3. You can do one manuever and then change your action into a second manuever and not lose strain in doing that, but now you can't do an action, this not a free 2nd manuever as you paid for it with an action.

I don't know of another way to break it down to you, but with the exception of the species you mentioned, the only way to do manuevers is the way we have expained to you, and none of them are free

Except your number 2 contradicts this, and your number 3 is not spelled out without the strain penalty, you guys are assuming it is without that.

Again, the manuever with the down grade of the action doesn't cost strain because you exchanged your action for the strain

Except right before that you said explicitly "2 maneuvers = 2 strain no matter what"

Why is that ignored?

Except your number 2 contradicts this, and your number 3 is not spelled out without the strain penalty, you guys are assuming it is without that.

It's already been clarified by some designers themselves and quite a few members have already pointed out that you are mistaken.

There is nothing wrong with being mistaken. RAW makes it pretty clear that if you only have one manuever and would like a second you can take the strain for an additional.

If you don't like it, then don't play it that way, simple. Afterall it's your table. There is no point to try to argue/discuss this topic further as, as whafrog stated, it's been officially clarified for years now.

EotE pg 200

"A character may perform one free maneuver on his

turn. He may also perform a second maneuver by voluntarily

suffering two points of strain. (Characters may

also perform a second maneuver through a particularly

successful skill check, or by other means listed elsewhere.)

However, regardless of the source, a single

character may not perform more than two maneuvers

during his turn."

Straight from the Edge book as stated above pay attention to the sentence in between the ()

Zan, but nobody has addressed my main issue, they just keep stating the same thing as if new words will pop out that I state clearly are missing.

Osprey, again your line does not address my issue.

It's not "another manoeuvre for 2 strain no matter what". It's "another manoeuvre for 2 strain OR 2 Advantage OR a converted action". Where exactly are you getting this idea that it's supposed to cost 2 strain "no matter what"?

Ok first sentence states

"A character may perform one free maneuver on his

turn. He may also perform a second maneuver by voluntarily

suffering two points of strain"

That speaks for itself

The next is

(Characters may

also perform a second maneuver through a particularly

successful skill check, or by other means listed elsewhere.)

That means, the species you listed above is exempt from this rule along with what other paragraphs state, example you can change your action for a second maneuver with no cost to strain. Which is in the book and I posted word for what it said in an earlier post.

Pick what you want to pick, but you seem to be the only one out of everyone on this thread that doesn't get it and it has been expained so much in many different ways that maybe you need a dev to tell what is meant, but at this point I feel you don't want to understand it due to it not being in your favor.

Now someone who wants to truly understand this may be unwilling to post here due to what you are doing.

osprey I am pretty sure you are reading what you are typing, but I am also pretty sure you are not reading a word I am typing.

I read the same line you do that states 2 strain for a second maneuver

I read the same line you do that states you can downgrade an action to a maneuver

I disagree that the second line means you don't pay the 2 strain.

You can re type your lines 10000 times, that is not going to add "you do not pay the 2 strain" to "you can downgrade an action to a maneuver".

It is fully clear that I am seeing an issue that others don't, but I do see an issue, and there IS an issue.

Words are missing. If it stated "The only cost is the downgrade of the action to a maneuver" or "it does not cost strain", nothing any "fan" types matters.

It makes zero sense to introduce a rule that allows you to downgrade an action to a maneuver for two strain if there is already a rule granting you a second maneuver together with an action for two strain.

I re-read the rules and find them to be pretty clear. There are several ways of getting two maneuvers per round (which is the hard limit), but not all of them cost two strain.