resources lost or destroyed. never knowing where a battle might break out. this probably went on for years. so yes the rebels overthrew the tyrannical empire but just created smaller more aggressive clusters of the empire in constant battle for resources. the most cost effective way to develop new war machines in such I situation, I would think, is take what you have and try to make it better with as little cost as can be managed. taking a standard tie and giving it a tail gunner is a huge leap into this direction. giving a fragile swarm ship protection from the rear in a dog fight would be worth its weight in republic credits to increase the survivability in a fight.

So: in the Star Wars universe, production is easy, but design takes time. It took 25 years to build the 1st Death Star, but only 2 or 3 to build the second.

The other issue is raw materials. After the Death Star was destroyed, the Empire had to deal with the Hutts to get new materials for the Second Death Star.

To me, that means it's unlikely that various Imperial fragments would be using extensively modified Tie chassises just because they had them laying around. You'd still have the problems of design, though the material problem would be alleviated.

More likely, I think, is that the Tie design is a fairly efficient morphology- it's small, compact, and basically has the best possible turning radius.

Also it's iconically Imperial, so if you're creating a 1st Order, you would not mind using something so reminiscent of the New Order.

I don't know about that, designing being a slow proceess. Some things may have required along time too design but we see other things designed and produced in a good amount of time, like Star Fighters. Heck they had like maybe 7 diffrent types of Super Star Destroyer during the Civil War and hundreds of them to boot.

I dont think they were dealing with the Hutts because they had a lack of resources. I thinhk they need some too move unoffically owned IMP material with non-Imp craft too areas the IMPs didnt want other faction to know they had activity in. We see the Empire has crap loads of planets they can get resources from and lots of factoriesa ll overt he galaxy that use these resources too build up the IMP War Machine. The onlh exception could be if they needed a rare resource thatt he Hutts had access to at the time. Like the Focusing crystals for the Mk 2 SUPER LASER, or Material used to make Dark Trooper / Purge Trooper armour but thats a diffrent IMP super weapon all together.

What boggles my mind is why half of you guys still think we're going to see these ships in the first edition of XWMG.

XWMG?

X-Wing: Miniatures Game.

I for one predict a new starter box. They've declared a 2.0 is 'not gonna happen'... but what about an Episode 7 Starter Kit? It's not a 2.0, honest.

Of course, it could also be a "Sorry kids, we weren't allowed to admit it due to NDAs" or something. We'll see. Provided that they don't start an entirely separate line, I don't mind either way. They did Descent 2.0 fairly enough, so I'm not panicking. Yet.

So I feel like there's some double standards going on in regards to using non-OT movie ships in the game. One of the biggest arguments I hear against prequel ships is that they are too old (20-30 years by time of the OT). Yet many want to have the sequel ships which are 30+ years in the future of the OT saying that ships don't change much in 30 years.

So which is it? I feel they are more just excuses because they hate the prequel ships, and love the sequel ships since they are the same **** ships again just slightly different looking.

So I feel like there's some double standards going on in regards to using non-OT movie ships in the game. One of the biggest arguments I hear against prequel ships is that they are too old (20-30 years by time of the OT). Yet many want to have the sequel ships which are 30+ years in the future of the OT saying that ships don't change much in 30 years.

So which is it? I feel they are more just excuses because they hate the prequel ships, and love the sequel ships since they are the same **** ships again just slightly different looking.

Generally-speaking, all advocates for TFA ships have been shown previously to have questionable taste. I'd just ignore them entirely, and trust FFG has better taste (which we also have precedent for).

I should add I have nothing against putting sequel ships in the game, in fact I'm all for it.

That being said, if they add them before prequel ships I'll be very disappointed, as they could have been adding them the past couple waves instead of doing obscure and/or (IMO) butt ugly EU ships.

FFG are not going to make prequel ships because they are smart people...

They've declared a 2.0 is 'not gonna happen'

Hey Reiver - where did you see this?

Ffg clearly don't like the prequels, Disney clearly don't like the prequels, the majority of fans don't like the prequels.

Galactic civil war onwards the message has been clear for over a year now let it go.

Ffg clearly don't like the prequels, Disney clearly don't like the prequels, the majority of fans don't like the prequels.

But a lot of fans like the ships in the prequels. Even if they don't like the films themselves.

And since this is a starship miniatures game, and not a narrative retelling...

Ffg clearly don't like the prequels, Disney clearly don't like the prequels, the majority of fans don't like the prequels.

But a lot of fans like the ships in the prequels. Even if they don't like the films themselves.

And since this is a starship miniatures game, and not a narrative retelling...

The best part of the prequels was the ships, all the new designs and fun aesthetics. The clone wars cartoon also elevated the prequels in my eyes, and added even more fun designs to the pool of ships that were much better than the majority of one off EU offerings such as the Hornet interceptor or 'uglies'.

I have nothing against the prequel ships. I mean they add ugly EU ships (like the crappy crab), why not add some of the nice prequel ships. However we cant influence it anyway. Its more likely that they put in Episode 7 ships now because thats simply the next big Star Wars release.

Look, this game is going to be around for a long time. I'm sure they'll get to all of it eventually.

Look, this game is going to be around for a long time. I'm sure they'll get to all of it eventually.

SWCCG (players committee is trying its best though)

Interesting thing I noticed after watching this, the tie appears to be a double seater.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dydg_1mL67A

Where are all the avionic and engine stuff? I guess they are in the cogs, but still doesn't look like enough space for stuff.

It looks like the blaster can rotate 360, but it really will only be able to shoot stuff that's in front of it, directly below, or in the rear. I wonder if FFG will actually recognize it, or treat it like the rear turret on the shuttle and come out with an APL like card. Who knows, this fighter may even have shields. I even wonder if this is the new main fighter for the New Order or is this a more specialty craft.

I'd like to see a rear shot of it.

Interesting thing I noticed after watching this, the tie appears to be a double seater.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dydg_1mL67A

Where are all the avionic and engine stuff? I guess they are in the cogs, but still doesn't look like enough space for stuff.

It looks like the blaster can rotate 360, but it really will only be able to shoot stuff that's in front of it, directly below, or in the rear. I wonder if FFG will actually recognize it, or treat it like the rear turret on the shuttle and come out with an APL like card. Who knows, this fighter may even have shields. I even wonder if this is the new main fighter for the New Order or is this a more specialty craft.

I'd like to see a rear shot of it.

It's called a special forces TIE, sounds like it's not going to be standard.

You can get a blurry shot of the aft in the second teaser trailer.

And based on the behind the scenes stuff from Comic con Flynn might steal the one we see firing in the launch bay and fly it down to Jakku, crashing it. Storm troopers don't fly TIEs too well i guess (he was probably shot down tho). Dunno if we will see any others of th same model.

I think that if it's a "special forces" TIE, you have your explanation for why it looks like a traditional TIE right there: It's designed to look like a regular TIE to disguise its purpose.

As for the black: It appears that the TIEs are black chrome. So you still get a lot of visibility from reflections. That and it's Jar-Jar Abrams, so we'll be getting plenty of lens flare off the chrome - although with all of Jar-Jar's lens flare, you probably won't be able to tell what's going on, anyway, even if they kept the TIEs grey-blue with black panels.

It's also possible that they determined that the silver panels with a black chrome fighter make it easier to see with modern CGI.

As for the 30-years thing... If we treat Star Wars as the real world, that means....

The prequel ships existed in the 1950s (~20 years before the originals). The original ships existed in the 1970s and 80s. So the F-86 Sabrejet and MiG-15 (from the 1950s) were thoroughly obsolescent by the late 1970s. The F-4 Phantom and MiG-17 (from the early 1960s, late 1950s) are getting pretty aged by the late 1970s. But the F-14 Tomcat (apart from not having any parts built for it since the 90s and being subsequently retired), F-15 Eagle, F-16 Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, A-10 Thunderbolt II, Tornado, Viggen, MiG-29, Su-25, and Su-27 (all from the late 70s, early 80s) are still very useful aircraft, 30 years later.

So it seems suitable - to me - to treat the starfighters of the original trilogy as being F-15s and Su-27s and the like. Still around, still useful, but getting on in years. The T-70 X-Wing and new TIEs are more like the F-15E Strike Eagle or Stealth Eagle and the Su-35 and Su-37: Old dogs with new tricks. I would expect that we'll see the equivalents of the F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lightning II, Typhoon, Gripen, PAK FA, Su-47, &c. in the sequel trilogy.

We just haven't seen them (or much of them) because basic TIE Fighters and X-wings are instantly recognizable as being Star Wars: So they get to suck us in. Once we see the new fighters in Star Wars, people will be more likely to recognize them as being Star Wars and we'll be more likely to see them in trailers going forward.

What boggles my mind is why half of you guys still think we're going to see these ships in the first edition of XWMG.

Explain why we wouldnt see them? Its just 30 years later, so the time frame isnt a problem. FFG wants money so they would want to use the hype of the new movie.

Yeas... DAT!

Lacks is just mad because he knows they are NEVER going to make prequel ships.

Uh... No? I'm just genuinely convinced that there's going to be a second edition of X-Wing.

You tell me this, Joe. How in the freakin' hell is a T-70 going to distinguish itself enough from a T-65 to fit. How a TIE Fighter with a double-90-degree arc is going to really fit, with the option of crew and perhaps Cannons, and not find a way to break the game?

Because I'm not seeing it. You would have to introduce a whole new class of astromechs for the T-70 to work. Why? Look here. You're aware of this- you have to be, you're one of the most in-the-know-about these things guys here.

Y'see that? That's A BB Series Astromech. That's a new one. These are the standard now, and they're what The Resistance is using in their new T-70s. This means that absolutely none of the classic astromechs will ever fit inside of there without a retrofit.

So not only would you need a special card that increases the cost of the T-70 to use old Astromechs, you would then have a more expensive X-Wing that isn't justifying its cost from the get-go.

So no. I don't care about the prequel ships. I'm not mad about it. I just don't think the new ships have anywhere they can fit in the design space without being other factions entirely, and then that would be silly to do in the first place. The Rebellion and The Resistance, The Empire and The First Order, these things cannot exist at the same time in the same time period.

Mark my words, there will be a second edition with these new ships if FFG is smart.

Mark my words, there will be a second edition with these new ships if FFG is smart.

They just might... oh-okay... PROLLY!

The new ships are going to be VERY cool! How many you gonna buy?

I dunno if you can treat Star Wars chronologically like recent world history, since the folks in that Galaxy have been flying in spac for thousands of years trying to blow each other up. If technological advancement was still going at the pace it did like in the later half of the 20th century the Jedi would have been protecting the Galaxy with taun fauna and banthas at the dawn of the republic.

I think when we see different designs in starfighters over the decades we are seeing the 'meta' designs by manufacturers supplying the demands of the current state of warfare and the roles of needed ships. During peace time (or relative peace with unrest) we saw automated ships and local security forces with artisan built ships, as well as the lightly armed but nimble Jedi starfighters. Suddenly during war time we saw larger ships with massive firepower as well as even smaller fighters with relatively heavy weapons. The technological knowhow had been there for millennia and did not need to be developed, it just wasn't used to pump out massive war machines and deadly interceptors because there was no need. Similarly when the empire formed, the disparate ships of the old republics starfighter corps (purchased from a multitude of companies to fill multiple roles) were decommissioned in favor of designs with commonality to facilitate mantainance and ease of training between ships, as well as to save money by purchasing from one nationalized vendor. TIEs were innovative only in that they were cheap, quickly produced and easy to keep flying, and the advance TIEs always shared common control schemes and cockpit layouts to avoid steep learning curves when introducing new fighters/bombers/ect. when needed. That being said, TIE Fighter the game did show an unprecedented arms race and technological advancement that is at odds with the rest of the history of the Galaxy. But then the empire was concentrating the resources of an entire galaxy into a focused program of military technological prowess, unlike the complacent Republic before it. Who knows, some of the advanced and super advanced tech of the old with wars thousands of years prior could have been forgotten only to be rediscovered by the empire, resembling the advancement of modern tech in our world. It seems though that the rapid advancement of technology is an aberration and long time use of standard, stable tech seems to be the norm.

I think it could be possible to, rather than a version 2.0, they did an able to stand alone, yet backwards compatible game. An X-wing advanced. You keep the same basic mechanics, such as movement and attacking, but add in some slight changes. Perhaps take a lesson from armada and add in a new type of attack die, we'll call it orange, to represent more powerful/advanced weapons of the newer era, so an t-70 x-wing would have 1 orange and 2 red attack, 2 green agility, 3 yellow hull, and 2 blue shields. The orange die could very well have more hits, including a double hit, but less crits or even focus. For all we know, the new TIEs, not just the First Order Special Forces TIE, have shields.

As for backwards compatibility, make a weapons refit upgrade that changes one of your red dice to the orange die.

You could keep in a growth of power, as the new ships will have their own strengths and weaknesses, upgrades and such, the older ships could still compete and represent older craft.

A t-70 x-wing could have other advantages even if this isn't used, as it could

Be a more maneuverable x-wing. As to the new craft being implemented into the game and not being around with the others, it depends when they get implemented in the timeline. Perhaps the t-70 is brand new, and the older x-wings have been still in service. Perhaps the first order came about while the old empire fractured, and took all the newer tech while some other factions of empire still used the old tech. There are so many options that could happen.

Call this new version X-wing advances and make it a boxed set, with several ships and upgrades for the older game as well, and you can have your cake and eat it too. Want to just play the new movie ships? Done. Want to play the old with new upgrades? Done as well.

I think it could be possible to, rather than a version 2.0, they did an able to stand alone, yet backwards compatible game. An X-wing advanced. You keep the same basic mechanics, such as movement and attacking, but add in some slight changes. Perhaps take a lesson from armada and add in a new type of attack die, we'll call it orange, to represent more powerful/advanced weapons of the newer era, so an t-70 x-wing would have 1 orange and 2 red attack, 2 green agility, 3 yellow hull, and 2 blue shields. The orange die could very well have more hits, including a double hit, but less crits or even focus. For all we know, the new TIEs, not just the First Order Special Forces TIE, have shields.

As for backwards compatibility, make a weapons refit upgrade that changes one of your red dice to the orange die.

You could keep in a growth of power, as the new ships will have their own strengths and weaknesses, upgrades and such, the older ships could still compete and represent older craft.

A t-70 x-wing could have other advantages even if this isn't used, as it could

Be a more maneuverable x-wing. As to the new craft being implemented into the game and not being around with the others, it depends when they get implemented in the timeline. Perhaps the t-70 is brand new, and the older x-wings have been still in service. Perhaps the first order came about while the old empire fractured, and took all the newer tech while some other factions of empire still used the old tech. There are so many options that could happen.

Call this new version X-wing advances and make it a boxed set, with several ships and upgrades for the older game as well, and you can have your cake and eat it too. Want to just play the new movie ships? Done. Want to play the old with new upgrades? Done as well.

I agree. Either they will do what Lacks posted or they will do what you have here. Either way it is coming and I am very happy about it!

T-70 X-wing

Rookie Resistance pilot PS 2

Att 3

Agi 2

Hull 3

Shield 2

Focus, TL

Astromech, Torpedo

Cost 20

See not so hard to do.

T-70 X-wing

Rookie Resistance pilot PS 2

Att 3

Agi 2

Hull 3

Shield 2

Focus, TL

Astromech, Torpedo

Cost 20

See not so hard to do.

You've just invalidated every classic x-wing as well as the repaint and made every named pilot overpriced

You've just invalidated every classic x-wing as well as the repaint

As one would expect of an X-Wing built 30 years later.

T-70 X-wing

Rookie Resistance pilot PS 2

Att 3

Agi 2

Hull 3

Shield 2

Focus, TL

Astromech, Torpedo

Cost 20

See not so hard to do.

You've just invalidated every classic x-wing as well as the repaint and made every named pilot overpriced

To be fair, hasn't the khiraxz done that to an extent? You have a ship that's almost identical to an x-wing, but at a better price point and a better maneuver dial?