PS 9 Whisper

I actually refused to play Phantoms pre-nerf because I found it ridiculous to play against and didn't want to enhance the problem among my local group... Post-nerf, I'm the only person in our group that's been flying it at all.

Here are my observations:

1. As some have already mentioned, there is certainly now some risk to decloaking. Not only because you can't use the decloak to adjust your maneuver, but also because your choice to decloak precedes any ship's movement. Whereas before ship-ship collisions weren't so bad since you could choose to stay cloaked, you now run the risk of decloaked ship-ship collisions where your ACD might not even have a chance to activate.

2. The gap between Echo/Whisper and generic Phantoms is much smaller now. ACD is still only viable on the higher PS ships, but PS used to be much more important of a benefit for decloaking. Unless you're facing a list with cloakers, Sigma decloak is just as good as Whisper decloak.

3. Intelligence Agent is more important than ever. I know a lot of us see the potential in other crews (e.g. Recon Spec), and some might even consider Intel Agent to be "cheap." But the truth is that it's incredibly cost-efficient, and I'd argue that the TIE Phantom is now the best ship to utilize Intel Agent (YT-2400 with APL is a close second ). It's easy to get caught up with how good the Phantom's stats are, but let's not forget that it has crew and system slots which can turn it into a cost-efficient machine. Slap on Intel Agent, FCS, and SPA, and you have an incredibly potent glass cannon.

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Ah yes, the classic "if you disagree with me on this, you suck at the game." Having to decloak before you get to see your opponent's moves is definitely not as good as getting to decloak after seeing everything that your opponent does for the round. Planning ahead is only good if you also change your plans to react to your opponent's actions.

Ahh the great argument of saying something the person quoted never said! I didn't say they suck, I said they played it wrong. And yes, it is a mistake to call it a nerf, you lose reactionary tactics, but you also gain blocking tactics instead. That's what everyone seems to focus on, losing reaction, but you gain something that not a lot of people understand how to use.

I actually refused to play Phantoms pre-nerf because I found it ridiculous to play against and didn't want to enhance the problem among my local group... Post-nerf, I'm the only person in our group that's been flying it at all.

Then you never actively learned how to beat them. It wasn't that hard, imps had (has!) it even easier, with a 3 point upgrade called Rebel Captive.

PS 9 Whisper

Yeah that's what I meant. I was playing a VI Corran squad right before heh.

Ah yes, the classic "if you disagree with me on this, you suck at the game." Having to decloak before you get to see your opponent's moves is definitely not as good as getting to decloak after seeing everything that your opponent does for the round. Planning ahead is only good if you also change your plans to react to your opponent's actions.

Ahh the great argument of saying something the person quoted never said! I didn't say they suck, I said they played it wrong. And yes, it is a mistake to call it a nerf, you lose reactionary tactics, but you also gain blocking tactics instead. That's what everyone seems to focus on, losing reaction, but you gain something that not a lot of people understand how to use.

A dismissive "if you disagreed with me, you played it wrong" in a highly skill-based game like X-Wing is not too different. And it is a nerf to the top-tier Phantom playstyle of keeping the Phantom wherever you want it, all the time, with the reactive decloak. Blocking is fine but it isn't as powerful by any means. Regional lists have shown that the Phantom has been almost entirely usurped by Fel, and there is no way that AT, useful as it is, could almost completely do away with Whisper as the Imperial ace of choice.

edit: Bottom line I get what you are saying, and I agree that being able to block and then move at PS6,7,8, or 9 is great, but there is no basis for arguing that it is as powerful as the Phantom was before.

I actually refused to play Phantoms pre-nerf because I found it ridiculous to play against and didn't want to enhance the problem among my local group... Post-nerf, I'm the only person in our group that's been flying it at all.

Then you never actively learned how to beat them. It wasn't that hard, imps had (has!) it even easier, with a 3 point upgrade called Rebel Captive.

Rebel Captive is great but only available to one faction and only on three of their ships, Not to mention that in my experience a Whisper or Echo player would usually let Chiraneau or whoever take on the Captive carrier first. I get sick of this idea that something isn't overpowered because there are ways to beat it. Whipser was overpowered in that he had capabilities far beyond that of any other ship, Doesn't mean it was impossible to ever win.

Agreed with kie

Phantoms could be beat without turrets or captive, just slap r3-a2 on vi Luke with EU and watch the magic happen

Thing is, you get tired of playing only one list because the rest of the game's varied options can't do **** to the phantom.

We're far better off now, even though we're still waist deep in stagnant PWT waters

I like the phantom but always play interceptors, I took them to last regionals back when they were "underpowered" and got third and took fel this regionals because I couldn't fit interceptors into a list that I really liked with a few obsidians. AT is nice but it just made the interceptor last longer. The reason you don't see phantoms is because the majority of players believe they got nerfed. The same people that complained about the unpredictability of phantoms back then still fly turrets today, and the people that played phantoms, left because it is no longer an "easy" ship.