The Phantom rule change I am referring to is that instead of decloaking when you reveal your maneuver, you now decloak at the beginning of the turn. How badly has this rule change affected the Phantom?

Only moderately. The Phantom still can make moves that no other ship in the game can and has the amazing 4 natural attack dice. Whisper and Echo are still serious threats to anyone who doesn't have a way to shoot them before they re-cloak. Even the generic phantoms can take people by surprise.

Just as important, perhaps, is that people aren't building to counter phantoms as much anymore. Turrets are still common, but PS 9+ turrets are not as common as they used to be, as far as I can tell.

You'll get different answers to that question. Some people think it didn't really change anything at all, others that is brought Phantoms down from "actually overpowered" to "good, but no longer broken".

The biggest effect is that they now require more skill at predicting your opponents to fly really well, and that is probably where the difference in opinion comes from. Someone who is very good at reading their opponent and guessing where their ships will go can basically fly a Phantom the same as before. The more often someone is wrong about how their enemy will fly, the more the phantom change was a nerf.

I think part of the decline was the decloak change, but a larger part was Autothrusters.

Soontir is a PS 9 arc dodger that can perform 3 actions a turn, rolls 4 defense dice usually with focus until he gets hit and will usually change one defense blank to an evade.

The closest Phantom comparison is Whisper, who is not as good an arc dodger, will also usually get 4 defense dice with a focus, but does not get the free blank-to-evade and costs 7 points more, minimum.

not as good of an arc dodger anymore.

we should ask actual Phantom users. Past and Present.

We should also consider the actual statistics of Phantom use.

After that, we can discuss _theory_, which may tell us things we might know already.

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Personally, I feel like if you go for Whisper over Soontir, you have 5 more points, and pay that much for the 4attack dice. Whisper also dies worse in this meta. PS10 Chiraneau isn't fun to play ACD against. Also honestly, a good Soontir player can at least keep to the same level in a Whisper vs Soontir fight.

I think the nerf wasn't quite done right, as this really makes the interceptors much better and has mostly killed off use of the Phantom.

Though, I can think of worse things that have happened.

The change hurt the Phantom a lot, but it gained the ability to block low pilot skill ships. I never thought a change was necessary, but it is nice to be able to play Lone Wolf or some other EPT on a Phantom rather than always having to take Veteran instincts. In my experience, nobody plays Phantoms anymore. Considering all of this, I feel that the change was a net loss for the Phantom, with very little benefit to the game itself.

It only hurt reactionary players and not ones that plan ahead. It really isn't a nerf but rather a change of play style. If some one calls it a nerf, they didn't play it right in the first place.

I, for one, am extremely pleased with what they did to the phantom. Balanced and elegant.

Hasn't affected it badly at all. It lost its reactionary ability, which never really made thematic sense to start with, and further differentiated it from the TIE interceptor. The TIE phantom can get just about anywhere it wants but it can't react like the TIE interceptor can. You can now guess where the phantom is, which is how Cloak always should have worked. It won't automatically be in the place you didn't pick.

It's now a balanced game component with a distinct flying style and similar viability of both named and generic pilots (this was a buff for the generics). It's ceased to become an overpowering meta force because it now requires a lot of skill to fly and doesn't work well at all if you fly it badly: meta lists need to be powerful, consistent and forgiving. The phantom lost the last one.

So badly nerfed? No. It was nerfed very well, and whether or not it was a nerf is also arguable. In the hands of the unskilled, certainly. But for those who are good at the maneuver game, it's still a 4 dice, often 4 agility ship with incredible ability to dance across the board and befuddle the opponent.

For those that fly Phantoms a lot, what's your opinion on taking Intelligence Agent?

It was bad before but now, Whisper requires your entire list is built around it in order to work.

And green dice still screw you over.

Generics are "OK" but not really worth taking except for flavour/playstyle.

Echo is still the Queen.

For those that fly Phantoms a lot, what's your opinion on taking Intelligence Agent?

It is good + cheap on generics and they need it the most.

Intel Agent is much more useful, but you don't need it unless you're really obvious with your decloak selections.

Someone who is very good at reading their opponent and guessing where their ships will go can basically fly a Phantom the same as before. The more often someone is wrong about how their enemy will fly, the more the phantom change was a nerf.

This. All the change did was require you to switch on your brain when playing a Phantom instead of playing completely reactionary. The nerf was a buff to my Phantoms, people stopped bringing PS11 Hans because everyone else gave up on the Phantom. People need to realize there are other viable builds with the Phantom besides VI, Gunner, FCS, and ACD that are more survivable and still have great damage output.

The nerf to the phantom was a good thing for the game overall. As it was, every list created needed to have a method to deal with phantoms. That's why BBBBZ has been out since W4 (when the phantom came out), and yet only recently has become even discussed - Pre nerf Phantoms absolutely destroyed it.

Now, a skilled player can go against a phantom with any list and do well. Sure, it's going to have 4 attack and 4 defense and be slippery, but it's at least possible. There was nothing more annoying than correctly predicting what the phantom was going to do, for him to just go "eh, I don't think I want to be there where all those guns are pointed. I'm going to decloak the other way and have no shot and be out of position, but at least I'm alive!"

Most of the Phantom's power is still there, but I'd say about a 1/3rd of its actual power was taken away. The ability to see where your opponent went and then move wherever the **** it wanted to was a good 3rd of its power against non-turret lists. The other 2/3rds was the obnoxious 4/4 statline and the pile of tokens and other assorted things it got for just existing, like gunner and ACD and Whisper's ability.

The reason its presence in the meta has dropped by more than a 1/3rd is because it's less of an autowin for no skill players and people have this misconception that it's no longer good. Also, the meta has been drowning in turrets for so long now that any players who would be playing the Phantom aren't.

turrets would also be why we're seeing more soonts, less new whisper

soonts is, against the vast majority of the game, a far more difficult pilot to use. One block, and he's ****** whereas whispers would still get FCS + re-cloak + evade + focus as long as she could shoot. In this 2 ship meta, however, there's far less chance of soonts ever getting blocked and far more reason, when PWTs turn the game into a dicefest, to bring the dude with autothrusters and not the dude that goes down to z-95 stats against han without the initiative.

Other than that, the phantom still represents one of the highest offenses in the game and whisper is still relatively very forgiving

It really depends on the matchup. Whisper vs ps9+ is relatively unchanged. Whisper vs anything ps8 or lower, especially with advanced sensors, is quite a bit different.

With ps8 advanced sensors Corran I actually have about a 50/50 shot of killing her. Before I just had a 50/50 shot of going to time by not letting her kill me.

It only hurt reactionary players and not ones that plan ahead. It really isn't a nerf but rather a change of play style. If some one calls it a nerf, they didn't play it right in the first place.

This is not true. It definitely was a nerf. I think it was a well needed nerf, but definitely a nerf. Pre nerf, people were winning tournaments(not big national events, but smaller local ones at least) with 2 phantoms by themselves. Post nerf, this is no longer possible. The definition of a nerf, to me at least, is change one aspect of something to make it less dangerous. (Aka nerf guns, nerf ball etc) So just the fact that they are no longer the insane monsters they were and no one plays them at high levels anymore(again I know there are other factors, Authothrusters, PWTs, etc) proves they were, in fact, nerfed. They used to be 35-45 point killing machines that would wreck your day. Now they are just an inconvenience that usually die very fast. And please don't quote the old tired line, "but they have 4 attack dice, and 4 evade dice!" Because while 4 attack dice is awesome, 4 evade dice cannot be counted on and we all know that. Phantoms lived and died by arc dodging. If you get them in arc of a few ships, they are gonna die, regardless of evade dice. I've been doing against them since they came out. I have been doing it to them even more post nerf. So say what you will about the nerf(love it, hate it, indifferent) but call it what it is. A nerf! Also I don't care if your the best player in the world, anyone can make mistakes and pick a poor maneuver. Pre nerf you could usually get your glass cannon out of harms way and try to turtle up for a turn. Post nerf this isn't possible. So again, lets call it what it is. A well needed, but actual, nerf.

Problem is that's an incorrect use of the term

The phantom lost its post maneuver decloak and gained a premanuever decloak

The premanuever decloak has hosts of benefits that aren't as easy to exploit at first glance, but they certainly exist (blocking them is much harder, they can now block, ion no longer shuts off decloak etc)

Calling it a nerf isn't technically correct nor does it really Do justice To the ship. Just not being so easy to exploit anymore doesn't make it less dangerous. The higher skill floor is reinforced with new potential shenanegans.

Of course pets don't give half a **** about most of them , but that's less on the phantom and more on the PWT advantage's terrible failproof design

People need to realize there are other viable builds with the Phantom besides VI, Gunner, FCS, and ACD that are more survivable and still have great damage output.

I actually wonder if a Lone Wolf, Sensor Jammer, ACD + crew build would work on Echo. Similar to a build I've seen run on Guri to good effect. You trade autothrusters and inertial dampeners for ACD and some kind of crew. Echo costs a few points more but for good reasons, I think.

The funny thing with me is that I was playing the phantom as it is now before anyway, so didn't effect me at all.

Well I have played phantoms and won SC's and many other tournaments. Played the 3 phantom list and other versions of the phantoms.

The phantom nerf is a nerf, sure you now get to block and use K-turn's, yes it's a thing now. Take away their action then K-turn behind them and fire. But as we all know seeing where the enemy is and moving is the main part in this game. This takes that away from the phantom.

Personally, it's a good nerf. Now players even let me play them again, and yes you can do some blocking and catch people by surprise, but now it is much hard to fly and easier to kill. Intelligence agent is helpful, but not the same.

Because those green dice do fail you. Before you saw where everyone moved and you could avoid most firing arcs, allowing the 4 green dice to save you once, but now you must decide before hand about your decloak, without seeing where the enemy moves. (Even the lower PS ships) (IMO this is much more fair, but also much more limiting) Now those moves to avoid combat when your in a bad position, are not there any more. I find myself cloaking a lot more at the start of games, unless I'm sure I'm safe. If the phantom can survive to the end game now, it can be deadly. 360 ships are it's major weakness still.

All in all I'm totally happy with the nerf. People let me play my phantoms more than ever before, and they don't look at them in disgust when they see them.

Now it is way more balanced, then before. Previously before the nerf if I was playing a new guy, I would put my phantoms away, because he had no chance to beat me. Now he has a chance, balance in life and games is good.

Pre nerf, people were winning tournaments(not big national events, but smaller local ones at least) with 2 phantoms by themselves. Post nerf, this is no longer possible.

Winnipeg Regionals disagrees with you.

The biggest result of the phantom rule change is it opened up the field for Dash. The main reason I didn't play Dash is Whisper could chase Dash quite well and Echo... man she lives in that range 1 bubble. Now that Dash can see where those two ships are starting from Dash has enough information to use that BR and Boost to keep distance from those Phantoms.

The Dashing Menace as I like to call it, destroys non range 3 turreted ships so well large ships continue to do well in the meta. Dash has replaced the Phantom in keeping small ship swarms/miniswarms from doing well (as a whole) which keeps large ship turrets able to deal with just about everything else. At least that's how I see it and more and more people are catching on to the power of Dash.