Reading pre-Regionals posts many people expected BBBBZ to play a big role in the current Regionals metagame.

While they do show up from time to time, imo they're not nearly as represented as many probably thought they would be.

Any idea why this is the case?

My guess is that when it comes down to it, the lack of maneuverability is too much for the great jousting value to overcome.

Legalization of debris has quite a lot to do with it. B wings already had trouble with Dash sniping them because they can't go fast.

Also Fel.

I think it's mainly because not everyone has 4 B Wings. I suspect you'd see a lot more of Panic Attack too if everyone had all of the cards for it, which is a lot unless you already have everything.

There is also this pervasive attitude that seems to favor stacking upgrades on 2 ships. Whereas before you'd see a 2 or 3 ship list and scoff and say, you need 8 more TIE Fighters, the opposite seems to have happened where you run a traditional list and you're the only one doing it.

People would also rather just fly Turretwing against Turretwing and attempt to 'outfly' their Turretwing opponent than fly a counter Turretwing list.

MoV

Owning ships might be part of it but with no partial point scoring a two ship list has an inherent advantage against a five ship list in MOV.

Majorjuggler has brought this up a few times. I've "lost" a couple tourney games with multiple full health ships because the opponents 65 point behemoth still had a hit point left.

OTOH, there is no simple fix for these issues. MOV is complicated enough.

Edit- Ha! Ninja'd

One point I could think of would be the time limit of 75 minutes compared to the 60 minutes before. Not sure though, since I never checked time during my games when playing it myself.

I feel like it plays pretty decent against RAC + Soontir and Brobots though, so really curious why they see less play.

My guess is that when it comes down to it, the lack of maneuverability is too much for the great jousting value to overcome.

Mind explaining? Sure, B-Wings are no Interceptors, but their dial, especially combined with barrelroll, isn't that bad at all.

Legalization of debris has quite a lot to do with it. B wings already had trouble with Dash sniping them because they can't go fast.

Also Fel.

Yeah Soontir can be tricky I guess. But are Debris clouds that much of a deal for B's? They don't move that bad within asteroid/debris fields ...

I think it's mainly because not everyone has 4 B Wings. I suspect you'd see a lot more of Panic Attack too if everyone had all of the cards for it, which is a lot unless you already have everything.

There is also this pervasive attitude that seems to favor stacking upgrades on 2 ships. Whereas before you'd see a 2 or 3 ship list and scoff and say, you need 8 more TIE Fighters, the opposite seems to have happened where you run a traditional list and you're the only one doing it.

People would also rather just fly Turretwing against Turretwing and attempt to 'outfly' their Turretwing opponent than fly a counter Turretwing list.

Yeah, could be. On the other hand when most people have a 3PO I guess they can also afford those B's

MoV

... as probably all swarms, sure, good point. Does the 60 minute rounds favour them though? I'm asking since the Regionals we're attending will have 60 minutes still.

B-wings can turn sharp, barrel roll, and fight in tight quarters. I think large ships with Engine Upgrades don't care about that. The B-wing can't move fast and if the Fat Turrets start leading you on a merry chase, then it's a win to them.

My reasoning is pretty much what heychadwick said. The can turn, but they have poor displacement, they're just so slow. Most lists really have much better range control, so that nullifies some of the jousting efficiency advantage.

Debris doesn't hurt the B directly. It makes super-Dash into a sleek B-wing slayer.

Its also a bit boring to fly. Also, the more ships you have = the more thinking you have to do. After 4-5 games it can really wear on you.

They all got destroyed! It's not like the alliance has a limitless supply of them.

Because these ships get eaten by arc dodgers, including the large base turrets with engine.

As long as the RAC/Han/Dash pilot isn't silly enough to get himself cornered, he can easily get out of arc and lead them on a chase.

One point I could think of would be the time limit of 75 minutes compared to the 60 minutes before. Not sure though, since I never checked time during my games when playing it myself.

MoV

... as probably all swarms, sure, good point. Does the 60 minute rounds favour them though? I'm asking since the Regionals we're attending will have 60 minutes still.

Almost all the Regionals are at 75 minutes, so we don't have much data on 60 minute Regional-caliber events. In theory though, low MoV squads perform progressively worse as the time limit is lowered. Any low MoV squad has a very good chance of "automatically losing" against a Fat List if the game goes to time due to points getting locked up in a Point Fortress, and you are obviously much more likely to go to time with 60 minute rounds than with 75.

60 minute regionals are just disgusting

the 75 minute standard is tight enough as it is with m.o.v encouraging exclusively 2-ship builds

Reading pre-Regionals posts many people expected BBBBZ to play a big role in the current Regionals metagame.

While they do show up from time to time, imo they're not nearly as represented as many probably thought they would be.

Any idea why this is the case?

Based on my experience at the WV regionals nothing happened to it. I played 2 2 ship lists all day and all other rounds were b wing parties. Depends on the area maybe?

1. I dont have 4 b-wings

2. I like my b-wings with FCS

3.

4.

X. MOV

Because YYYYZ is better.

*Ducks under cover*

Based on my experience at the WV regionals nothing happened to it. I played 2 2 ship lists all day and all other rounds were b wing parties. Depends on the area maybe?

I think he means "why aren't they winning, like most people guessed?".

I think fat turrets arc dodge them too effectively. One of the hidden weaknesses of b wings is thier speed. I played 2b2y at my regional and on several occasions I found my bs were slowing my Ys down from getting into good position. Red 3 banks and no hard 3s put the bs in a rough position against a boosting turret.

One of the reasons BBBBZ is so good is because of the optimal point totals, each B is worth slightly less than 2 TIE Fighters, for example. This matters little against a 2 ship list, if you have 2 B's left and your opponent has a dumb fat turret you've lost. Corran totally not game ruining look how diverse the meta is horn's double tap FCS shenanigans with a fat turret's predator BS where you get to modify shots even though you got blocked or whatever and don't deserve an action can almost kill a B Wing a turn.

Everyone were expecting 4BZ, that's why they all ran Dash list (which is a very hard counter to 4BZ and is still good vs everything else).

Since I sold all my collection and kept only 4BZ, I can tell you that having to care for 5 ships instead of 2 really wear your brain out at the end of a tournament.

The return of Soontir Fel also put a big dent in the 4BZ. This little bastard can really eat you alive and I am not kidding. Chiraneau + Fel vs my 4BZ, I managed to take down Chiraneau before he got a shot (he landed on a rock) and Fel was trying to flank away, so it ended up the 4BZ vs Fel and ****, he still managed to take down the Z and 2 of the B before I could take him down (with a lucky triple crit roll vs all blanks).

Same deal with Dash who can just move behind your B-Wings and shoot.

I really think it is the thing that made people less likely to run 4BZ.

Debris are not a problem, a B-Wing can still be dangerous even loaded with stress. It is when you need to play the arc dodge game with someone that the stress kill you.

I think B wings are great, but they really need to be paired with other ships to thrive. As everyone else has said already, it is hard to keep them in the fight when the enemy is running or arc-dodging. But, pair them with some blockers or a mixed-bag list of rebels and they will do just fine, even if they aren't at the pinnacle of the meta.

Can't wait for kbbb

Even if it's a wash, conner + int agent warden will make Bs oodles of fun.

I think another thing is that BBBBZ is one specific list, while 2 ship lists are composed of a variety of ships and upgrades despite flying very similar to each other (besides aggressors, of course).

Maybe you should also count any lists with at least 3 B Wings.