...and it's pretty demoralizing. Up until now I've been able to keep any loss to within 50 points, but today I just got annihilated. I brought an AF2B w Gallant Haven, Garm Bel Iblis, Adar Tallon and Electronic Warfare; A Nebulon-B Escort Frigate with Raymus Antilles and Yavaris; And 100 points of fighters (4 Y-Wings, 2 X-wings, B-Wing and Kayan Farlander).

My opponent had a VSD 1 with Admiral Screed, Expanded Fighter Bays and Enhanced Armament; A GSD2 with Demolisher, ACM and Engine Techs; Major Rhymer, TIE Bomber, TIE Advanced, Darth Vader and I think three to five TIE/f.

I chose to go second and he picked Fleet Ambush from my list. I was not sold on including it in the first place, because I figured that was just letting an imperial player get their VSD that much closer to you. This game caused that train of thought to completely stay 100% the same, as I had a VSD, GSD and fighter escort in my face from the top of turn 2. I got STOMPED. Vader chewed up my X-wings by rolling four damage every time he attacked, the TIE/fs tied up my Y-wings so they couldn't engage and Rhymer...actually wasn't as scary as I'd feared, but it was my buddies first time playing with him.

Lessons learned: Fleet Ambush is still a terrible choice for MY rebels. I want to like Y-Wings. I really really do, but they're so feeble and pinned down so easily. Even with an X-Wing (or YT-1300 in Wave 2) escorting them, they can't leave to bomb something and they contribute almost nothing to a fight. Also fighters are just...not my thing. I prefer gunnery fleets.

You committed the cardinal sin of wasting points in squads...you invested way too many points in Bombers and can not hope to defend you investment with your crappy dogfighting powers. I'd drop the Bs and take two As and 1 xwing.

Otherwise, yes drop fleet ambush. Take fire lanes or hyperspace assault.

Also, they are TIE/ln (Ln for line fighter)

I think perhaps dropping the 1 B-wing and 1 of the Y-wings for a pair of A-wings may be the better option.

Specifically with the Gallant Haven title in play that grouping has more then enough ability to shred the opposition. With a Squadron Command from the Yarvis your initial activation after being pinned is going to do quite a number on the engaging fighters.

A-wings! You must use A-wings! Especially against swarming Tie fighters.

I have found it a must for Rebel fighter lists. X-wings really don't do much beyond letting your Y and B wings avoid damage. you still need to destroy enemy fighters to disengage the bombers

A-wings! You must use A-wings! Especially against swarming Tie fighters.

I have found it a must for Rebel fighter lists. X-wings really don't do much beyond letting your Y and B wings avoid damage. you still need to destroy enemy fighters to disengage the bombers

Right, but my opponents just choose not to shoot the A-Wings. They don't risk the counter dice, the A-Wing throws one less die than X-Wings, and they get what they want: Keeping my bombers tied down.

A-wings are useful either proactively tying up your opponent or for jumping into the scrum after it's been engaged, this can allow them to avoid dealing with Escort if you prefer not to.

Fleet Ambush in Rebels vs Empire is pretty bad. It's a stand-up fight with a quicker start, a competent Imperial player will outfight Rebels often in that scenario. Rebels need missions that allow them to score points in order to win. In a slugfest, Imperial ships are just tougher. His list was solid...his black dice probably murdered you. Screed + VSD1 + Demolisher is very much a thing. To beat it as Rebels you want to fight Demolisher alone, kill it and then repair/flee until end of turn 6.

As for a yellow mission, you probably want Hyperspace Assault. Bring in Yavaris, Keyan and 2 Y-wings from hyperspace on the rear or flank of his VSD. Take down a shield and let Keyan work his magic.

I think B-Wings are good. Now they do take a bit of work and planning to make them great but they are not horrible. I do think Tycho in that list would have alleviated some headache since he can scatter Vader's attacks and then run off and engage Rhymer for days (did that a lot today with Tycho, an X-Wing and am A-Wing)

I think the rebels could wear down the VSD but after Demolisher is down. It is better to focus in the fighters

The only issues with B wings is that if a gladiator or even a VSD going at speed two, you'll get maybe one or two shots off before they're out of range. With a command dial, you can help mitigate that a bit, but then you'll be that much closer to the big guns of the ships. If youre getting all your bombers tied up in a scrum, you should think about separating them into small / more diverse groups. That way maybe only one group gets locked down, but youre free to attack with the other.

For me at 300 point games I'm not investing points in titles for the Assault Frigate... It is possible to run a three capital ship build and lightly season those ships with upgrades. For sqaudrons I'd go with A's and Y's or A's and X's. Or go all A's. Don't get caught up in all the glamour of upgrades, its tempting at times but can be an easy point sink.... You can effectively run a list with minimal upgrades and win. Rebel ships don't need alot of upgrades, the titles alone are good enough in some cases.

In my opinion I don't like the Gallant Haven title card, I think it restricts you to having to play a certain way with your sqaudrons during a game and you have to concentrate on keeping those sqaudrons in that range one bubble. I honestly think they could have planned out better titles for the Assault Frigate. Both titles and this again is my opinion seem like cheep gimmicks that are rather situational, and either restrict your fleet or give you a false hope in trying to land a two arc shot on a target just to gain a dice for Paragon... It's just not enough to draw me in to use those titles

Now the other titles for the other rebel ships I think are great and work a great deal better for the ships they are intended for. But hey if you like Gallant Haven and that works for you then cool. I'm happy that someone actually does well in using it.

As for me I like having multiple capital ships with a complimentary group of squadrons.

The only issues with B wings is that if a gladiator or even a VSD going at speed two, you'll get maybe one or two shots off before they're out of range. With a command dial, you can help mitigate that a bit, but then you'll be that much closer to the big guns of the ships. If youre getting all your bombers tied up in a scrum, you should think about separating them into small / more diverse groups. That way maybe only one group gets locked down, but youre free to attack with the other.

...and it's pretty demoralizing. Up until now I've been able to keep any loss to within 50 points, but today I just got annihilated. I brought an AF2B w Gallant Haven, Garm Bel Iblis, Adar Tallon and Electronic Warfare; A Nebulon-B Escort Frigate with Raymus Antilles and Yavaris; And 100 points of fighters (4 Y-Wings, 2 X-wings, B-Wing and Kayan Farlander).

My opponent had a VSD 1 with Admiral Screed, Expanded Fighter Bays and Enhanced Armament; A GSD2 with Demolisher, ACM and Engine Techs; Major Rhymer, TIE Bomber, TIE Advanced, Darth Vader and I think three to five TIE/f.

I chose to go second and he picked Fleet Ambush from my list. I was not sold on including it in the first place, because I figured that was just letting an imperial player get their VSD that much closer to you. This game caused that train of thought to completely stay 100% the same, as I had a VSD, GSD and fighter escort in my face from the top of turn 2. I got STOMPED. Vader chewed up my X-wings by rolling four damage every time he attacked, the TIE/fs tied up my Y-wings so they couldn't engage and Rhymer...actually wasn't as scary as I'd feared, but it was my buddies first time playing with him.

Lessons learned: Fleet Ambush is still a terrible choice for MY rebels. I want to like Y-Wings. I really really do, but they're so feeble and pinned down so easily. Even with an X-Wing (or YT-1300 in Wave 2) escorting them, they can't leave to bomb something and they contribute almost nothing to a fight. Also fighters are just...not my thing. I prefer gunnery fleets.

Actually with nearly same fleet but difreant squadrons 4xwings 2bwings 2ywings i won hyperspace ambush 10:0 three times. With Yavaris and Gallant heaven i decimated enemy squadrons while my ships were flying at speed 1 (Assault firgate shielding the Nebulon's flank from Gladiator), my ships fired everything they could at the Victory and it quickly went down when bombers joined the atack. In the meantime Gladiator was trying to around my whale and got finished off my my squadrons. All of my loses were 1 x-wing squadron or so.

You had too many y-wings they cant break enemy fighter screen quickly enough to make use of their bombs. Use xwings with yavaris to decimate enemy squadrons quickly.

I think your oponent could have 3 ties max (more wouldnt fit).

Keep your B-wings (2bs with yavaris is 8 dice!) at distance 1 in the front of the victory and focus all fire from your ships on it too. If you tie down enemy squadrons with xwings the star destoryer will move forward leaving its escorts behind, than you can bomb it as much as you want.

You don't take Yavaris + Haven and not take B-wings, that's just silly. B-wings w/yavaris represent the single the most devastating rebel punch in the game, and they make star destroyers of any variety look like pushovers.

the fat of the squadron portion of the list is coming exclusively from the heavy Y-wings, which with a little list jockeying could be four far more useful A-wings instead.

I've had similar experiences with ambush and squadron heavy, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot. I'm trying out Hyperspace Assault instead, for the incredible Yavaris + B-wing punch from out of nowhere.

I run Yavaris with Dutch + Wedge combo. It is brutal against enemy squadrons when you have initiative.

B wings in hyperspace assault mean you will get 1 turn of firing before enemy ships runs out of your range and that is if he has no squadrons covering his rear. Also Yavaris is pretty hopeless vs imperial lists like VGG, it will get murdered quickly and bwings are too slow to catch gladiators.

For me at 300 point games I'm not investing points in titles for the Assault Frigate... It is possible to run a three capital ship build and lightly season those ships with upgrades. For sqaudrons I'd go with A's and Y's or A's and X's. Or go all A's. Don't get caught up in all the glamour of upgrades, its tempting at times but can be an easy point sink.... You can effectively run a list with minimal upgrades and win. Rebel ships don't need alot of upgrades, the titles alone are good enough in some cases.

In my opinion I don't like the Gallant Haven title card, I think it restricts you to having to play a certain way with your sqaudrons during a game and you have to concentrate on keeping those sqaudrons in that range one bubble. I honestly think they could have planned out better titles for the Assault Frigate. Both titles and this again is my opinion seem like cheep gimmicks that are rather situational, and either restrict your fleet or give you a false hope in trying to land a two arc shot on a target just to gain a dice for Paragon... It's just not enough to draw me in to use those titles

Now the other titles for the other rebel ships I think are great and work a great deal better for the ships they are intended for. But hey if you like Gallant Haven and that works for you then cool. I'm happy that someone actually does well in using it.

As for me I like having multiple capital ships with a complimentary group of squadrons.

See I know they CAN run fine without upgrades, but for me half the fun is figuring out how to tinker in just the right upgrades to make the ship fit a little more into my playstyle. I know that means point sinks for sure, and I've done pretty well so far. But this time I got wrecked. I think everyone's right in that I just had way too many Y-Wings. Considering I could have cut one Y and upgraded the other three to X's? Five X-Wings, B-Wing and Kayan Farlander seems like it would have been a much better idea.

For fighters doing ship attacks: just park them at the edge of their range in front of the offending ship. You will be able to keep them in front every time the ship moves, and maybe even avoid an engagement

For me at 300 point games I'm not investing points in titles for the Assault Frigate... It is possible to run a three capital ship build and lightly season those ships with upgrades. For sqaudrons I'd go with A's and Y's or A's and X's. Or go all A's. Don't get caught up in all the glamour of upgrades, its tempting at times but can be an easy point sink.... You can effectively run a list with minimal upgrades and win. Rebel ships don't need alot of upgrades, the titles alone are good enough in some cases.

In my opinion I don't like the Gallant Haven title card, I think it restricts you to having to play a certain way with your sqaudrons during a game and you have to concentrate on keeping those sqaudrons in that range one bubble. I honestly think they could have planned out better titles for the Assault Frigate. Both titles and this again is my opinion seem like cheep gimmicks that are rather situational, and either restrict your fleet or give you a false hope in trying to land a two arc shot on a target just to gain a dice for Paragon... It's just not enough to draw me in to use those titles

Now the other titles for the other rebel ships I think are great and work a great deal better for the ships they are intended for. But hey if you like Gallant Haven and that works for you then cool. I'm happy that someone actually does well in using it.

As for me I like having multiple capital ships with a complimentary group of squadrons.

I'm almost of the same opinion, but I prefer getting *some* upgrades in exchange for squadrons. I'd rather lose the squadron battle (*barely*, to delay them) and have powerful capital ships that can wipe out enemy capital ships. So I run an AF a nebulon and a corvette with 50 pts of squadrons, or AF + 2 Corvettes, or AF + Neb + CR90, with the AF somewhere at 140 pts.

For me at 300 point games I'm not investing points in titles for the Assault Frigate... It is possible to run a three capital ship build and lightly season those ships with upgrades. For sqaudrons I'd go with A's and Y's or A's and X's. Or go all A's. Don't get caught up in all the glamour of upgrades, its tempting at times but can be an easy point sink.... You can effectively run a list with minimal upgrades and win. Rebel ships don't need alot of upgrades, the titles alone are good enough in some cases.

In my opinion I don't like the Gallant Haven title card, I think it restricts you to having to play a certain way with your sqaudrons during a game and you have to concentrate on keeping those sqaudrons in that range one bubble. I honestly think they could have planned out better titles for the Assault Frigate. Both titles and this again is my opinion seem like cheep gimmicks that are rather situational, and either restrict your fleet or give you a false hope in trying to land a two arc shot on a target just to gain a dice for Paragon... It's just not enough to draw me in to use those titles

Now the other titles for the other rebel ships I think are great and work a great deal better for the ships they are intended for. But hey if you like Gallant Haven and that works for you then cool. I'm happy that someone actually does well in using it.

As for me I like having multiple capital ships with a complimentary group of squadrons.

See I know they CAN run fine without upgrades, but for me half the fun is figuring out how to tinker in just the right upgrades to make the ship fit a little more into my playstyle. I know that means point sinks for sure, and I've done pretty well so far. But this time I got wrecked. I think everyone's right in that I just had way too many Y-Wings. Considering I could have cut one Y and upgraded the other three to X's? Five X-Wings, B-Wing and Kayan Farlander seems like it would have been a much better idea.

It's cool, the good thing about this game is that you can customize your fleet to play to your play style. Keyan is pretty cool.

Like you said Cuthawolf, you took a mission to test it out in a friendly game. And you nearly killed my gladiator with your bombers. It scooted away with 1 hull left. One more damage and that battle would have swung in your favour.

I agree that you had a few too many y-wings. That **** B-wing ace made a huge pain of himself.