How do you feel about 3 Onyx Squadron Pilots and 3 MK II Engines?
Against Turretwing? Against Dual Aggressors? Against B Wing spams like BBBBZ or Panic Attack?
I feel sad because I want that to be sweet, but I think it's just not as good as 4 tempest lists.
Rexler Brath (48)Push the Limit (3)Heavy Laser (7)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)Lieutenant Colzet (23)Accuracy Corrector (0)TIE/x1 (0)Sigma Squadron Pilot (29)Fleet Officer (3)Enhanced Scopes (1)Total: 100
I like it. I think it should be called Imperial Phantom Works.
Whoever thinks stress isn't a big deal on the Defender has never faced a stress passing list with one. Get double or triple stressed and you either have to never worry about doing an action again, or disengage from the battle and regroup after 2 or 3 turns. The main problem with disengaging is the fact that your are not using 1/3 (or even more) of your list for a few turns.
I faced a Fat Han supported by a Prototype Pilot and BTLA4 Stresshog, with 3 Debris Fields in game 4 of the Regional championship with my Defenders. My Defenders spent a fair amount of the game stressed. I was able to get a TL out on Han early, so between Vessery's free TL and the re-rolls from Predator, I was able to keep putting out substantial damage. It's not that it has no impact, but it wasn't crippling. I still did a bunch of damage. I could still K-turn. It's not that stress isn't a problem, it's just that it's not an insurmountable one.
Rexler Brath (48)
Push the Limit (3)
Heavy Laser (7)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Lieutenant Colzet (23)
Accuracy Corrector (0)
TIE/x1 (0)
Sigma Squadron Pilot (29)
Fleet Officer (3)
Enhanced Scopes (1)
Total: 100
I like it. I think it should be called Imperial Phantom Works.
Whoever thinks stress isn't a big deal on the Defender has never faced a stress passing list with one. Get double or triple stressed and you either have to never worry about doing an action again, or disengage from the battle and regroup after 2 or 3 turns. The main problem with disengaging is the fact that your are not using 1/3 (or even more) of your list for a few turns.
I faced a Fat Han supported by a Prototype Pilot and BTLA4 Stresshog, with 3 Debris Fields in game 4 of the Regional championship with my Defenders. My Defenders spent a fair amount of the game stressed. I was able to get a TL out on Han early, so between Vessery's free TL and the re-rolls from Predator, I was able to keep putting out substantial damage. It's not that it has no impact, but it wasn't crippling. I still did a bunch of damage. I could still K-turn. It's not that stress isn't a problem, it's just that it's not an insurmountable one.
Pretty much this. I was fighting a stressbot list at one point and just decided there was no reasonable way to clear my stress from how the board was, so i just ignored it and sat on predator. That said, green banks would have helped a ton in that game with removing stress rather than just dealing with it, and the siren call of ptl keeps tempting me away from predator.
TIE Engines doesn't hugely improve the Defender.
Rexler can use PTL better but he's already 4-5 points over costed.
Compare Rexler + PTL + TMKII 41 to
Vader Predator ATD 33
Soontir PTL Auto+Stealth 35
Whisper VI ACD FCS 39
there's very little advantage there. Same for Vessery, who doesn't even benefit from MKII. Stress wasn't the problem with Defenders...
Your comparisons are meaningless. Basically every ship in the game is overcosted compared to PTL AT Fel and ATC Vader, even Whisper.
I got your Epic right here:
7 Deltas with Mk 2 and HLC - 266
Jonus, Predator, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missile, Ion Pulse Missile - 34
I'm thinking the correct friends for a mk II defender are two mk II bulldogs (tempest with accuracy corrector). That gives you 18 points after Rexler to add ptl, cannon, and missiles to the bulldogs.
I think:
Rexler Brath, hlc, ptl, mk II (48)
2x Tempest, x1, ac, mk II, (3/4 point missile of choice, usual cluster, maybe advanced homing missile if it's nuts) for 50-52 points
This gives 98-100 points of strong midrange fighters. By the time they kill either the bulldogs or the Rexler whatever's alive should be able to finish the crippled enemy. There's no great choice either since both halves are entirely self sufficient, have really solid (and similar) dials, and are reasonably tanky.
I think there's going to be a lot of good Defender/Adv/Adv lists (this is one of them). They're going to be durable and punchy. I think you're spot on about putting missiles on the Advanced. It gives them a punch at range and lets them spike damage if they need to (the Defender won't always be able to). I could even see Ion Pulse on Brath and Proton Rockets on the Tempests. Ion something on a turn, then sick the dogs on them (backed up by Brath's HLC, of course). Assuming the Tempests lock on a the way in, you're looking at 2x5 dice attacks with Focus/TL and a 4-dice attack with Focus/TL. Brutal.
Flippin crits!Colonel Vessery (35)Veteran Instincts (1)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)Rexler Brath (37)Lone Wolf (2)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)Lieutenant Colzet (23)Accuracy Corrector (0)TIE/x1 (0)Total: 100******************You could give Brath PTL instead of Lone Wolf if you want to not have to worry about the LW range restriction, but then you'd have to downgrade Colzet and flip fewer crits.
I am now considering the implications of a Decoy Brath
Vessery wants to shoot early, to ensure that both pilots use their Target Locks.
Brath wants to shoot dead last, to ensure that he has hull-damage to flip.
Decoy.
I think the problem that you run into is the Brath needs something to help his dice rolls so he has a focus to spend. If you put Decoy on Vessery, you really need to make sure he doesn't end up as your closer since he'll have a both a useless pilot ability and EPT. You'd almost need to have Decoy on a third ship. You could get a Black Squad with Decoy and a Targeting Computer for 18 points.
Ultimately, in 100 point matches I think you are better off putting VI on Vessery so that he moves at the same time as Brath, you have the choice of who shoots first (Brath could shoot first hoping to finish a target off and Vessery starts on a fresh target), both pilots fire early at PS8, and even if Brath dies Vessery still beats a lot of ships' PS.
Flippin crits!Colonel Vessery (35)Veteran Instincts (1)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)Rexler Brath (37)Lone Wolf (2)Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)Lieutenant Colzet (23)Accuracy Corrector (0)TIE/x1 (0)Total: 100******************You could give Brath PTL instead of Lone Wolf if you want to not have to worry about the LW range restriction, but then you'd have to downgrade Colzet and flip fewer crits.
I am now considering the implications of a Decoy Brath
Vessery wants to shoot early, to ensure that both pilots use their Target Locks.
Brath wants to shoot dead last, to ensure that he has hull-damage to flip.
Decoy.
I think the problem that you run into is the Brath needs something to help his dice rolls so he has a focus to spend. If you put Decoy on Vessery, you really need to make sure he doesn't end up as your closer since he'll have a both a useless pilot ability and EPT. You'd almost need to have Decoy on a third ship. You could get a Black Squad with Decoy and a Targeting Computer for 18 points.
Ultimately, in 100 point matches I think you are better off putting VI on Vessery so that he moves at the same time as Brath, you have the choice of who shoots first (Brath could shoot first hoping to finish a target off and Vessery starts on a fresh target), both pilots fire early at PS8, and even if Brath dies Vessery still beats a lot of ships' PS.
Commander Alozen is the cheapest Tie Advanced pilot with an EPT, at PS5 and 25 points, and his ability synergises with Vessery
for 99 points, you can take him with decoy and accuracy correcter, a naked Vess and a naked Rex. :/