So I'm TO at a local venue, and some folks have made some requests that we think of ways to be more accommodating to new players in our prize support. Always one to try to kill multiple birds with a single stone, when possible, I'm also thinking of ways to 'mix up' the common lists we see.

So the idea I had is to award first (and most other) places as normal, but the second place instead going to the top-placing 'factory zero' player. IE., the player whose list consists entirely of ships that are using upgrades ONLY from their retail kit.

IE., no Crew2-D2 or C-3PO or Gunner on the Falcon. But the Falcon can take Luke! No 'Engine Upgrade' on anything BUT the Falcon. No PtL for Soontir. Only the TIE Defender can run 'Predator'. etc.

With that sort of restriction in mind - what's the most powerful list you can think of?

(As a secondary list, then - one of our other group members suggested a slight variant on the above. If you bring multiple ships, you can pull upgrades from any of the ships you brought. IE., a list consisting of a YT-1300 and YT-2400 could both have Engine Upgrade, as the Falcon expansion has two of those cards. I'm wondering if this option might not result in lists a bit too much like what we already have, though, but...well, interested in seeing what folks can come up with for that, too...)

That's a really cool idea, I hope you get plenty of support!

I like the Idea of "only what come in the box". A TO at a tournament I went to had a rule "No ship over 40pts" and that was fun day.

Its an interesting idea, but I found it hard to find a Scum list that I liked much. I think limiting it to upgrades from all the expansions in your list might work better.

BBBBZ seems good

BBBBZ seems good

Dammit, I think you just broke a really cool concept.

With that sort of restriction in mind - what's the most powerful list you can think of?

Triple Firespray.

If you really want to have people use the upgrade cards in the boxes, you could require a minimum number of upgrades per squad or per ship so things like bbbbz and 3 bounty hunters dont happen.

I was at a store championship and a tantive was awarded to the player with the worst green dice. In between rounds everyone rolled six green dice the person with the most blanks won. In the event of a tie the players who tied have a roll off. I thought it was a great idea maybe because I won with four blanks on the first roll.

You can build a decent Fat Han with just the MF kit and 3 talas squad/2 rookies. It would just beat BBBBZ, which would be the runner up.

So you have "stock ship" swarm lists (BBBBZ, FFFirespray, etc.), but those aren't really fielded by new players (do they really buy 3-4 copies of a ship and play with those instead of diversifying? most "what should I buy first?" threads here start with "one of everything!"). So if I add a constraint of "no more than 2 copies of a ship with the same paintjob (unless it's TIE Fighters, of which you may use 3)," that opens things up a bit. I'm no listcrafter, but here are some starting points:

Imperial:

Triple Interceptors (Imperial Aces + TIE Interceptor) 99

Carnor Jax + Opportunist + Royal Guard TIE + Shield Upgrade + Hull Upgrade

Turr Phennir + Push the Limit + Royal Guard TIE + Shield Upgrade + Targeting Computer

Royal Guard Pilot + Push the Limit + Hull Upgrade

Decimator + Interceptor 95

Soontir Fel + Elusiveness

Rear Admiral Chiraneau + Dauntless + Tactical Jammer + Ion Torpedoes + Ysanne Isard + Mara Jade + Proton Bombs

Rebel:

E-Wing + YT-2400 97

Corran Horn + Advanced Sensors + Outmaneuver

Dash Rendar + Lone Wolf + Lando Calrissian + Outrider + Experimental Interface + Heavy Laser Cannon

E-Wing + YT-1300 99

Corran Horn + Advanced Sensors + Outmaneuver + R7 Astromech

Chewbacca + Veteran Instincts + Millennium Falcon + Engine Upgrade + Luke Skywalker + Nien Nunb

YT-2400 + Rebel Aces + Z-95 + Core/X-Wing 100

Dash Rendar + Stay on Target + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider

Bandit Squadron Pilot

Rookie Pilot

Green Squadron Pilot + Chardaan Refit

Rebel Aces + B-Wing + A-Wing 100

Keyan Farlander + B-Wing/E2 + Kyle Katarn

Blue Squadron Pilot + Fire Control System + Ion Cannon

Prototype Pilot + Chardaan Refit

Jake Farrell + Chardaan Refit + Push the Limit

Scum:

Most Wanted + IG-2000 100

IG-88B + Mangler Cannon + Accuracy Corrector + Inertial Dampeners

Kavil + Autoblaster Turret + Unhinged Astromech

N'Dru Suhlak

Binayre Pirate

Most Wanted + IG-2000 + Starviper 100

IG-88B + Mangler Cannon + Accuracy Corrector + Inertial Dampeners

Guri + Autothrusters

Binayre Pirate

Binayre Pirate

Tie Swarm

Tie Swarm

I don't think this one being a viable option is necessarily a problem. It's not super strong in the current meta, and seeing it come back (even in a gimmicky sort of way as this) would be amusing.

That said, the BBBBZ list...is a problem.

Only way I can think to easily prevent that is the limitations on number of ships of a type, but...ugggh. Feels like adding complexity for its own sake, at that point.

Eh - what about adding this...

If bringing a ship with any upgrade slots, you must equip at least one upgrade?

That gets rid of 3xBH, as well as BBBBZ (although I'm not sure 4xB+ion is much worse...)

You could always just award the prizes like this:

Regular first place - medal + winner's stuff

Best "rookie" - winner's stuff (2nd set, a "rookie" would be anyone with under X tournaments)

2nd best "rookie"

3rd place

etc

We do a lot of weird tournaments at our store, our most popular by far is the 59 point cross faction required (at least two ships, from different factions) tournament with the full 12 asteroids/debris. Remove all faction only wording from upgrades, so you could put Han as a crew member on Boba's ship. Or Ruthlessness on Wedge. Only place you can't place obstacles is the deployment zones, regular range 1 apart. It definitely weeds out fat turrets (you could put a VI han solo out there, but would only have 12 points for a ship of a different faction), and you can't really go too crazy mixing faction stuff. Plus, as a beginner you can build that tournament's requirements with the starter and any other ship you want. The good players will still do very well, but its surprising what ends up REALLY good in that format. We had a guy win it all with Palob and an Ion upgraded Y wing. Its tons of fun!

Another more beginner friendly, but requires lots of people willing to loan out ships to beginners that may not have the best ships... the "Secret Santa" tournament. Get everyone ahead beforehand, put all their names on slips of paper, randomize, hand them out. Each person "gifts" their selected recepient a pilot/ship. Ex: I could draw your name, and gift you Serissou. You then build a regular 100 point list including the pilot. It means that I know what someone flies well, and will gift them something I don't think they can fly. And beginners will then be on a closer plane of skill if everyone is flying stuff they aren't comfortable with! That tournament was a BLAST and it took about 30 extra minutes of setup to hold.

Edit: I do like your factory tournament idea. The only thing I would change is that you MUST have at least one upgrade on each ship from the pack. That may make things quite interesting!

Tie Swarm

I don't think this one being a viable option is necessarily a problem. It's not super strong in the current meta, and seeing it come back (even in a gimmicky sort of way as this) would be amusing.

That said, the BBBBZ list...is a problem.

Only way I can think to easily prevent that is the limitations on number of ships of a type, but...ugggh. Feels like adding complexity for its own sake, at that point.

the swarm's weakness in the current meta was little to do with the strength of the list, and moreso:

1. the effort and concentration required to repeatedly fly that many ships

2. fat ships hogging up MOV and pansying off while Ties bleed it like a stuck pig

with far less efficient Dashs, Brobots, Hans etc to worry about, the swarm player is going to enjoy his run unless people start inventing new tech in the format.

Seems like a LOT of restrictions. I doubt anyone will even pay attention or go for the "out of the box" prize on its own merit, particularly if you try to soft-ban BBBBZ, Triple Bounty Hunter, or other lists that you don't agree with. Instead, consider maybe a "Newcomer Division." Within each tournament, identify those who are at their first tournament (or perhaps up to third or whatever arbitrary cap you put on it) and reward the highest placer from the Newcomer Division. This requires less fiddly list construction rules or, even worse, thinly-veiled "No Fat Turret" restrictions, from entering the conversation and you still reward and encourage new players. The Newcomer title would be self-identified, just a checkbox for having attended <3 tournaments.

Seems like a LOT of restrictions. I doubt anyone will even pay attention or go for the "out of the box" prize on its own merit, particularly if you try to soft-ban BBBBZ, Triple Bounty Hunter, or other lists that you don't agree with. Instead, consider maybe a "Newcomer Division." Within each tournament, identify those who are at their first tournament (or perhaps up to third or whatever arbitrary cap you put on it) and reward the highest placer from the Newcomer Division. This requires less fiddly list construction rules or, even worse, thinly-veiled "No Fat Turret" restrictions, from entering the conversation and you still reward and encourage new players. The Newcomer title would be self-identified, just a checkbox for having attended <3 tournaments.

Sure, that's possible. As are other ideas, such as just awarding prizes by dice-off (no skill/experience needed at all to win something), having a simple prize on offer for whoever the newest player is, etc.

OTOH, as mentioned in the OP, I am rather trying to hit multiple issues at once if I were to do something like this, and, yeah, a 'thinly-veiled no-fat-turret' being one of the results of this is absolutely not unintentional.

Or, more specifically, I like the possibility that it will get rid of the "you see it every single tournament" combos - PtL on Soontir, Han with 3PO, Brobots with autothrusters, Corran with R2-D2, etc - and allow less common builds to flourish. At least, for anyone who wants a shot at the #2 prize - obviously, you can just play as normal for any of the other prizes.

So, basically, X-Wing Sealed. I like it.

Naked X-Wing: No duplicate ships, no unique pilots, no upgrades.

As far a bracketing tournaments goes, how about Major League and Minors divisions. The top X number of players from the Minors get bumped up to the Majors and the bottom X from the Majors get sent down. New players start in the Minors.

As far as making it more friendly for new players: anything you do to restrict what list look like will make it harder for a new player to field a good list. And the more experienced players will still be able to optimize for the new environment much better than the new players will. So there will not be much of a difference in list quality disparity.

My experience:

In my first tourney, I was pretty new to the game. I did bad, I think I went 1 and 4. The TO had a random door prize set up for anyone who entered. I ended up winning a free B-wing. I have since come back to the same store many times because I had a good day hanging out with the people there, and I had a chance to win stuff even though I was out classed. I like the idea that was mentioned earlier about the blank dice roll off for the same reason. You don't have to win to get a prize.

have you considered a losers bracket? Take the 2 or 4 players with the worst records and have them play for a small prize. The new players will most likely be in there, and get to play some games against competition on their own level.

Good luck running your tourney. Getting new people involved is a big task, and the best way to help the new guys enjoy the day is to have a group of regular players that "fly casual". I think most new players expect to loose, but they can still learn from the good players and have fun doing it.

Also I think the best way to mix up lists is just to have a short ban list: no 3p0, no coran, no decimator etc.

A friend and I tried single ship combat. We settled on a ship, pilot and a point value after determining pilot and ship. Each game lasred less than 30 minutes. Upgrades were restricted by faction. We ran 6 games in less than 3 hours and were allowed to change EPTs and upgrades between matches. Made for a good night of flying.

Simple solution: Ship lists without any upgrades don't qualify for the prize, just as ships with upgrades from outside the lists ship decks don't qualify either.

Even pure TIE swarms remain viable(ish); if you fly a 7-TIE list you'll be throwing Swarm Tactics on Howlrunner and then taking a couple other named pilots. It's a bit squishy (Not a lot of upgrades on Howly), but hell, it's a swarm.

I like the idea a lot. Hard to say just what I'd want to fly; 4B w/ FCS or ion cannons could be nice.

I think it would be easier to just say no more than one of any expansion as well. So the most b-wings you could field is 2, so no BBBBZ shenigans, or 7 z's, or a tie swarm, etc.

Decimator & Whisper?