PTL Rexler is nasty take it from me.

Vessery only needs it if stress givers are common in your meta.

It opens up those Red turn moves too. Predator and the TIE title will make for a great combo I think.

Regarding the ion effect of the Defender:

Fire-linked Weapons Array

Defender only Upgrade (uses missile slot, cost 2pts)

"When you attack with either your primary attack or any cannon upgrade, after you deal damage and assign tokens, assign the defender 1 Ion token".

I like this idea a lot. I'd word it differently though.

Fire-linked Ion Cannon

1 point

Defender only. Modification.

When attacking with your primary weapon, if you have an Ion Cannon equipped, if your attack hits you may assign the defender 1 ion token.

This idea has been brought up before. I think it should be a free upgrade. I firmly believe that a player should be able to run 3 Defenders with a cannon in a 100 point list. The Defender NEEDS a 0 point fix.

I like this idea a lot. I'd word it differently though.

Fire-linked Ion Cannon

1 point

Defender only. Modification.

When attacking with your primary weapon, if you have an Ion Cannon equipped, if your attack hits you may assign the defender 1 ion token.

And I'd word it like this:

Edit: Update card

I like the idea of Defender only cannon! Still think it should be three points though.

I like this idea a lot. I'd word it differently though.

Fire-linked Ion Cannon

1 point

Defender only. Modification.

When attacking with your primary weapon, if you have an Ion Cannon equipped, if your attack hits you may assign the defender 1 ion token.

And I'd word it like this:

5 is too expensive it's not a turret, make it tie defender only and 0, gives the discount everyone says the defender needs without being too strong.

Just give the Defender a title:

TIE/D Integrated Cannons

TIE Defender only. Title. 0 points.

When you equip a Cannon upgrade, reduce its Squad Point cost by 3, to a minimum of 0.

Either that, or: After performing a Primary Weapon attack, you may immediately perform a Cannon Secondary Weapon attack against the same target.

You could do both, too, but that is likely too much.

Just give the Defender a title:

TIE/D Integrated Cannons

TIE Defender only. Title. 0 points.

When you equip a Cannon upgrade, reduce its Squad Point cost by 3, to a minimum of 0.

Either that, or: After performing a Primary Weapon attack, you may immediately perform a Cannon Secondary Weapon attack against the same target.

You could do both, too, but that is likely too much.

The consensus of the forum in the past has been for a linked cannon to main weapon title. This sounds too much like the new Y-wing title though. Which makes it highly unlikely to happen... which is a shame.

5 is too expensive it's not a turret, make it tie defender only and 0, gives the discount everyone says the defender needs without being too strong.

I don't want it to be Defender only. Firing Ion Cannons and Laser Cannons simultaneously was something any ship could do in X-Wing Alliance. Not just Defenders.

The Defender's discount should come the same way as the Advanced. Through a title card.

I like this idea a lot. I'd word it differently though.

Fire-linked Ion Cannon

1 point

Defender only. Modification.

When attacking with your primary weapon, if you have an Ion Cannon equipped, if your attack hits you may assign the defender 1 ion token.

And I'd word it like this:

I like that one too, but compare it to Gunner.

Gunner lets you do a primary attack if your previous attack fails. Cost 5 and 1 crew slot.

Your card lets your do a cannon attack after your previous primary attack, even if it hits or fails, and it has ion effects, and can be used by itself as a secondary weapon for removing the range 3 bonuses to the defender. Cost 5 and 1 cannon slot (that was going to be taken by the normal Ion Cannon anyway, if you wanted ion effects).

This card cannot cost the same than a clearly worse card like Gunner, because then there is no reason why the B-Wing would take Gunner at cost 6 when it could take this at cost 5 with much better effects.

Since the title of this thread is to "Fix the Defender" and the defender is said to be overcosted, we could agree that this card, probably worth around 8 or 9 points, to be costed 5 if it applies only to the T/D, to fix it. I don't think we need IG-88B with this equipped:

- Attack primary to a defender full with tokens to strip some off. Miss.

- [Linked Ion Cannon triggers] Attack with cannon to the same defender to strip some more tokens off. Miss.

- [iG88 B triggers] Attack with cannon to the same defender.

Imagine a couple or three B-Wings with this, Gunner and Fire Control System. Just obscene.

This card cannot cost the same than a clearly worse card like Gunner

I have no attachment to the cost I assigned to it. I was merely estimating. If people think it's too cheap, then charge more for it.

I know. But I DON'T want linked Ion Cannons to be limited to the Defender, any more than I want them limited to the Gunboat. Which is why I posted that when people started suggesting them as a Defender-only fix.

You would need another modification slot for the ace pilots to be able to spend all the freed up points ...

.. ....

Why??

He's proposing this a Defender title not a modification

Because the Defender might not need it. No one should prejudge the Twin Ion Engines before we see the firsthand experience and impact to the meta.

Twin Ion Engines. Making Defenders cost >30 points even for the cheapest one.

A free missile might be nice but then again the TIE Advance would want one too. Maybe a discount of 3 points on a missile upgrade but still I think that title would just be taken as paint instead of taking a missile even if it was free.

Personally, I don't think the ship needs a boost to it's offensive power or manoeuvrability - it's peculiar dial is one of its defining features and I for one would not want to change it.

I believe the main problem with the Defender is twofold - that it is vastly overpriced and suffers from low Pilot Skill values on it's generic pilots. Paying 30pts for a PS1 ship is galling, to say the least.

The solution I'd go with is a title card that increases pilot skill by two if it is already lower than six, and that has a -4pt cost. It's an auto-include, but then so is the Tie/X1.

Elite Training 0 pts, Tie Defender only

Gain an Elite Talent if you do not already have one. Elite talents cost 3 points less.

Delta with predator?

The Defender is an amazing Cannon platform. But so is the B-wing. At 30 points, the Defender eats up a lot of points. Clearly, the solution needs to help with the cost of the ship. A 4 or 5 point deduction on canons might be just the ticket.

I just don't think every generic ship that FFG rolls out is meant to be a mono-list. People trying to fit 3 defenders or 4 x-wings in a list and thinking they are supposed to be competitive aren't thinking about another possibility: maybe, just maybe, some of these ships are meant to be more viable for casual or epic play, or the generics are included because they 'have to be' and the unique pilots were the ones that are intended to be in tourney lists.

Just saying.

The game isn't broken just because something is 'overcosted' by a few points. I'm ok with fielding just one defender, or any other ship, in 'grab bag' list. It shakes up the game when the opponent doesn't expect a variety of ships. And I don't currently feel the need to buy more than one copy of each expansion.

In my opinion, the well-equipped TD should sit in the 40+ point range, similar to Corran Horn. Making it cheaper moves it into the already-crowded TA or TI space, and increasing offense just means that your opponent will double down on killing it first.

The defensive profile of the E-Wing is much, much better than the TD, because PTL focus/evade+r2d2 means that Corran is mitigating 2 more damage per round than a focused TD taking the same shots (the TDs offense will be better due to being able to take predator, etc., but that's just more evidence that the TD doesn't need more offense).

I think that the TD needs shield regen. We can't just tape r2d2 onto a TD title though, because that would be pretty nuts when combined with the new engines. I would instead make the title be something like:

"After performing a green maneuver of speed three or higher, gain a shield token." (encourages the new engines)

or

"Action: if you performed a maneuver of speed three or higher, gain a shield token." (note: this isn't green only)

I think that the first is the better of the two. It would encourage boom-and-zoom gameplay, and would really push the TD to be in a space where it fundamentally performs differently than most other ships (though it would be somewhat similar to other ships that have r2d2 equipped).

I just don't think every generic ship that FFG rolls out is meant to be a mono-list. People trying to fit 3 defenders or 4 x-wings in a list and thinking they are supposed to be competitive aren't thinking about another possibility: maybe, just maybe, some of these ships are meant to be more viable for casual or epic play, or the generics are included because they 'have to be' and the unique pilots were the ones that are intended to be in tourney lists.

Just saying.

The game isn't broken just because something is 'overcosted' by a few points. I'm ok with fielding just one defender, or any other ship, in 'grab bag' list. It shakes up the game when the opponent doesn't expect a variety of ships. And I don't currently feel the need to buy more than one copy of each expansion.

I don't believe anyone is saying the game is broken, nor is anyone insisting on mono-lists. For what it provides, the Defender (both generic and named, though the generics moreso) is clearly overcosted, which reduces it's viability as a squad choice.

I persist with it because I'm a big fan of it, having run many lists that include one or more Defenders (not to mention Rexler Brath being my number one pilot), but it clearly needs the same kind of help that other ships (A-Wing, Y-Wing, TIE Advanced) have received.

I just don't think every generic ship that FFG rolls out is meant to be a mono-list. People trying to fit 3 defenders or 4 x-wings in a list and thinking they are supposed to be competitive aren't thinking about another possibility: maybe, just maybe, some of these ships are meant to be more viable for casual or epic play, or the generics are included because they 'have to be' and the unique pilots were the ones that are intended to be in tourney lists.

Just saying.

The game isn't broken just because something is 'overcosted' by a few points. I'm ok with fielding just one defender, or any other ship, in 'grab bag' list. It shakes up the game when the opponent doesn't expect a variety of ships. And I don't currently feel the need to buy more than one copy of each expansion.

Mono-list is not the issue, but all ships should be viable in both casual, tournament, and epic formats. The Defender has over cost base models and elite pilots that have no senergy with each other or the Imperial fleet. The Tie Advance fix will help Vessery, but free target locks and focus tokens fits much more in line with the Rebel fleet.

I just flew a 150 point tournament and brought Colonel Vessery with a HLC and ruthlessness at a total of 45 points. I had very spotty dice and lost him to the first three attacks made on him. I did my best to keep him out of the parking lot and firing his HLC but eventually I had crept up to the fight on the side and then got demolished. The MVP for my squad were the two lambda's I brought, I was able to self-bump and fire every single round and only in the last round did they get behind me. The defender seems like a total waste of points to me, I could have brought Oicunn w/ ruthlessness at the same cost and he would have lasted far longer and been way more effective. I love the model and fluff but it is totally lackluster on the playing field, I can't justify building a list around Vessery when bad rolls can knock 1/3 of my list off the table. I think a potential fix would be a 0 point title called "Linked Cannon Battery" that reads "Your upgrade bar gains an additional cannon slot. If you equip this upgrade card you must equip two different cannons for -5 squad points (to a minimum of zero). When attacking you may perform two secondary weapon attacks."

So, without knowing what the Tractor Beam tokens actually do, since the Tractor Beam is a cannon, this prevents the Defender from having both Ion Cannons and a Tractor Beam as it did in the lore.

Barring some Title card that gives it a 2nd cannon slot...

I honestly feel both in lore and in gameplay that if you aren't fielding an Ace for your defender then you are doing it wrong. They are supposed to be supper elite ships and their aces can be devastating if played in a synergistic list. Personally I like the idea of adding new aces for them like a lot of the wave 1-3 are getting. Though I do really like the idea of an upgrade or ace for them that lets them fire a secondary weapon immediately after firing their primary. It would also make missiles a viable option for them as they can shoot, strip off tokens and or shields then fire a procket, cluster missiles or an ion pulse to pile on the damage or set them up for another shot the next turn.

I actually run HlC Brath in my tourney list accompanied by a lamba with fleet officer for focus assistance and Jax to help with enemy tokens. to great effect,

I honestly feel both in lore and in gameplay that if you aren't fielding an Ace for your defender then you are doing it wrong. They are supposed to be supper elite ships and their aces can be devastating if played in a synergistic list.

Sure. But the game DOES have generic aces. Like Black Squadron and the Royal Guard.

I honestly feel both in lore and in gameplay that if you aren't fielding an Ace for your defender then you are doing it wrong. They are supposed to be supper elite ships and their aces can be devastating if played in a synergistic list.

Sure. But the game DOES have generic aces. Like Black Squadron and the Royal Guard.

Yeah but the Defender really doesn't. its got a PS1 and a PS3 and neither can take a EPT

Yeah but the Defender really doesn't. its got a PS1 and a PS3 and neither can take a EPT

Yes, and that's the problem.