Hello Heroes,

I am currently brewing up an Edge game and I really wanted to have somebody flying around in a firefly class an a set of NPC characters, or maybe who knows the PC's. Could you please help me refine my stat block that I whipped up.

Firefly Class Transport Mid-bulk transport (Class B)

• Silhouette : 5
• Speed : 4
• Handling : -1
• Defenses: 1 / 1 / 1 / 1
• Armor: 3
• Hull Threshold: 22
• Strain Threshold: 24
• Hyperdrive: 4/15
• Navigation computer: yes
• Sensor Range: short
• Compliment: 1 pilot, 1 co-pilot, 1 mechanic, +2 More
• Encumbrance: 155
• Passenger capacity: 18
• Consumables: 3 months
• Price: 180,000 / 4
• Customization hard points: 3

Smuggling compartments

Docking Clamps: Use Retrofitted Hanger Bay rules for 2x Silhouette 2 clamps

MedBay: Gain a boost die to all medical checks performed in the medical bay.

3 One-man escape pods

Endo/Exo-Atmospheric Shuttle

Any thoughts or comments are appreciated. Thanks!

• The rarity and price should be higher

The dimensions of the Firefly class transport, compared with other ships of its type in the Star Wars universe, most definitely put it in the Silhouette 5 category.

Also...I have only watched the Firefly series a few times through and Serenity once, so I'm not an expert, but just at first glance:

• I'm thinking at least Handling -1 would be appropriate. Maybe -2 for its girth. Wash is an amazing pilot, who would most certainly have enough talents in Skilled Jockey to ignore those low handling setbacks.
• The encumbrance seems way too low...I'm thinking up at several hundred rather than 155. It's got a ginormous main cargo bay, to start with.
• I'd up the Hull Threshold at least 8-10 more points.
• At least 1 more point of Armor would be appropriate, maybe +2.

It's Silhouette 5 for sure. On the upside of this, I would go ahead and throw in a hangar bay in the base stats to represent the shuttle docks. I'd say the shuttle themselves are:

It's Silhouette 5 for sure. On the upside of this, I would go ahead and throw in a hangar bay in the base stats to represent the shuttle docks.

A hanger bay is internal storage and service space for smaller craft that also provides the ability to launch in flight.

Docking clamps would better fit the Firefly.

I kid you not, I'm currently about halfway through statting a Series 3 and it's shuttles for my upcoming campaign. Currently, completely diferent. You say Class B, but I assume you're going for the same model as Serenity like me?

Anyhoo, don't have much time to reply at the moment as I'm away from home but I will post my block here as well later (maye in new topic).

At a quick glance though the encumbrance is way too low, handling is a touch too high, and the silhouette should be 5. Granted it's really hard to stat encumbrance as it's unfortunately more Mass and Volume combined than pure mass but mass wise the Firefly Series 3 can hold nearly 6 times as much compared to a yt-1300 which has a total capactiy of 165. Just using that alone is an ecumbrance of rougly 973. With easily about 2 or 3 times the cargo volume as a yt-1300 I'd say even more encumbrance than that!

Thanks everyone.... I always figured the Falcon and Firefly were about on par on size. But looking now its probably more than 5 times in size. Jeez okay we can up the silhouette. Given that upping the thresholds makes more sense. I thought this was a smaller ship in comparison.

Agreed on smuggling compartments.

On the thought of encumbrance,
100 metric tons = Falcon

74 metric tons = Firefly

(these numbers are taken from http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon and http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Serenity

So given that the Falcon has an encumbrance of ~165 i don't know if that should change. *shrug* but weight isn't everything sooo.... *shrug* any other thoughts here?

On the topic of rarity, i thought the Firefly class was supposed to be numerous (at least in its universe) thus the low rarity. However I can see the argument of having it be rare in this universe. Any other thoughts on that?

I've edited the main post with the changes.

Sorry for the large picture, but this will help imagine scale:

Sorry for the large picture, but this will help imagine scale:

I would have pointed out the page at http://www.merzo.net/10ppm.htm instead.

It has a great scale picture of the Serenity at http://www.merzo.net/images/Serenity10ppm.gif

And the Millenium Falcon at http://www.merzo.net/images/10ppmswmilleniumfalcon.gif

Not to mention the Boeing 747 at http://www.merzo.net/images/10ppmboeing747.gif

So, what is the cargo capacity of a Boeing 747? Could the Serenity be something close to that?

Thanks everyone.... I always figured the Falcon and Firefly were about on par on size. But looking now its probably more than 5 times in size. Jeez okay we can up the silhouette. Given that upping the thresholds makes more sense. I thought this was a smaller ship in comparison.

Agreed on smuggling compartments.

On the thought of encumbrance,

100 metric tons = Falcon

74 metric tons = Firefly

(these numbers are taken from http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon and http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Serenity

So given that the Falcon has an encumbrance of ~165 i don't know if that should change. *shrug* but weight isn't everything sooo.... *shrug* any other thoughts here?

On the topic of rarity, i thought the Firefly class was supposed to be numerous (at least in its universe) thus the low rarity. However I can see the argument of having it be rare in this universe. Any other thoughts on that?

I've edited the main post with the changes.

Oops, I copied/pasted the wrong tab's cargo. numbers were way off then, my appologies.

That said, the Falcon was a highly modified YT-1300 freighter, hardly comparable to a stock YT-1300 which is roughly 50 to 75 metric tons and only the barebones freighter version (literally just enough amenities to keep crew alive) was rated for 100 tons.

My numbers were still off, but best not to compare Millennium Falcon to Firefly Series 3. Just as a stock Series 3 is nothing compared to Serenity.

We've been flying around in one recently and I love it, the Hotaru class "Tranquility". Room for all sorts of annoying NPC hangers-on.

Kind of a echo-y handful for just two characters sometimes though. (Usually we are 5, now three. Used to have 11 more stuffed into it.). Bit of an issue that (we play it as) not common, so after the next adventure where all-our-various-enemies-are-in-the-same-place and are likely to spot it... is going to suck.

If only the contact we sent to get the ship registered hadn't mistakenly named the designated B.O.S.S. 'Captain' after the captain's pet monkey lizard instead of the captain himself... it would be easier to operate in the core. On second thought, the captain having to get a new fake ID with his pet's name is never going to get old.

Sadly, the team's 'Captain' player refused to watch Firefly and hates the ship, continually trying to talk the rest of us into dumping it. In the immortal words of the Shepherd... "Not gonna happen!" The rest of us just ignore his outbursts.

We spent 33,000 CR so far fixing it up (we salvaged it after a hundred year drift). (Well, 6600 cr was 'cause I ripped the landing legs off once, but I digress.)

Applicable quotes: (from the movie "Up Periscope")

"I feel like I could get tetanus just from looking at it."

"The only thing holding it together, are the bird droppings!"

Hmmm...there is some discrepencies on Firefly Wikia with numbers.

http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Serenity

http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Firefly-class_transport_ship

The "Firefly-class transport ship" has roughly double the "payload" of the Serenity. I'm sure there's a good reason for this...but still, we're looking at 147 metric tons for the stock ship if the Wikia is right. So that's a bit more than the Falcon, anyway.

Hmmm...there is some discrepencies on Firefly Wikia with numbers.

http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Serenity

http://firefly.wikia.com/wiki/Firefly-class_transport_ship

The "Firefly-class transport ship" has roughly double the "payload" of the Serenity. I'm sure there's a good reason for this...but still, we're looking at 147 metric tons for the stock ship if the Wikia is right. So that's a bit more than the Falcon, anyway.

The stats on the second link are for Series 4. Serenity is a Series 3.

• Defenses: 1 / - / - / 1

Keep in mind that a ship larger than Silhouette 4 need all four defenses, even if 0.

I thought I'd go ahead and add my stat block I finished tonight to the growing list on the topic haha. Still lacking descriptions. Costs and rarity covers discontinued ship and that the shuttles come with the transport but are not made elsewhere.

EDIT: Fixed Silhouette, lol another copy/paste mistake! Thanks Brad haha

UPDATED: Finished descriptions and updated stats.

Endo/Exo-Atmospheric Shuttle

Speed : 2

Handling : 0

No Silhouette?

As far as the raw tonnage difference between the falcon and serenity go that's easy enough to explain with the different cinematic universes. Serenity may be much bigger but her thrust may be much lower since she uses different tech. No repulsors or ion drives in firefly.

So, what is the cargo capacity of a Boeing 747? Could the Serenity be something close to that?

We have to be careful. The entire back end of the firefly (correct me if I am wrong) but is the engine / power plant. The only part we see inthe show is the exposed part that Kaylee works on but technically the entire big bug butt is engine / fuel / etc. So with the photos above you could probably ignore 1/3 of the ship for encumbrance #'s. Then if you overlay the YT in the same space that the cargo hold is, you probably get comparable numbers for encumbrance.

So, what is the cargo capacity of a Boeing 747? Could the Serenity be something close to that?

We have to be careful. The entire back end of the firefly (correct me if I am wrong) but is the engine / power plant. The only part we see inthe show is the exposed part that Kaylee works on but technically the entire big bug butt is engine / fuel / etc. So with the photos above you could probably ignore 1/3 of the ship for encumbrance #'s. Then if you overlay the YT in the same space that the cargo hold is, you probably get comparable numbers for encumbrance.

Nope I am wrong

Looks like the but end is used for passenger space. But the idea of encumbrance holds for cargo.

Ah, so there was a good reason Thanks for the explanation OfficerZan!

*sigh*...all these pictures of Serenity make me sad.

Ah, so there was a good reason Thanks for the explanation OfficerZan!

*sigh*...all these pictures of Serenity make me sad.

Hey no worries, the way they have it lead to my original mistake in cargo! Copy pasted the Series 4 numbers, not the 3's!

As far as the raw tonnage difference between the falcon and serenity go that's easy enough to explain with the different cinematic universes. Serenity may be much bigger but her thrust may be much lower since she uses different tech. No repulsors or ion drives in firefly.

This, so much this. I completely forgot about this fact.

To point out further how completely silly it is for us to compare tonnage to Encumbrance , check this out...

So I decided just for fun to compare stats of another YT model with Specs vs Encumbrance...

YT-1300 = Cargo load of 25-100 Metric Tons (depending on model), we'll just go with 100 since that seems to be more agreed upon, and has an encumbrance value of 165.

YT-2400 = Cargo load of 150 Metric Tons and has an encumbrance value of 140!

There we have a ship statted officially to carry more cargo even though it has a much lower tonnage capacity.

So I was bored today waiting for my players to show up and went ahead using the posted picture above along with THIS ONE to come up with the fact that the Firefly Series 3 starship has a total (visible) cargo volume of 45,000 ft³.

The YT-1300 in EoTE has a crew of two with a passenger capacity of 6 making it appear to be a YT-1300FP (a mixture of both models). So with that decided for me I used these schematics along side this cross section to come up with a scale. With my scale in hand it appears that a stock yt-1300 has a total (visible) cargo volume (assuming you don't pile cargo in every room) of 5,000-10,000ft³.

I decided to not be super strict with either measurement as the shape of the rooms in a YT model combined with the catwalks of the Series 3 make it difficult to get exacts.

So in comparison:

YT-1300 vs Series 3

• Tonnage = Roughly a .75 modifier.
• Volume = Anywhere from a 4.5 to a 9 modifier depending on the YT-1300 layout.

Taking those numbers you're looking at a fair encumbrance value of anywhere from 560 to 1,500 depending on how much volume you deem the EoTE YT-1300 to have. This hasn't even accounted for what Ahrimon brought up about the differences in engine technology! Oh my.

Consider the issues of tonnage versus space in modern cargo aircraft.

The Antonov An-225 (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-225_Mriya) is the world’s largest cargo aircraft, but there are plenty of objects it carries that are not too heavy for smaller aircraft — they’re just too big.

In contrast, the An-124 is slightly shorter than the C-5a Galaxy, but can carry 25% larger payload (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-124_Ruslan).

So, maybe the Serentity was designed to carry bulky cargoes that don’t have as much mass?

Cargo capacity is a major pain in the butt. They have a light freighter with 120 encumbrance, room for three crew and four passengers. Seems kinda crazy to me. Those seven people take their all their gear off and toss it in the cargo hold. On average a Brawn of lets say 3 and they are pimped out to the max with belts, LBE and the latest in backpacks wearing their 3 encumbrance armor. That makes 20 encumbrance each. Times seven and you get 140 encumbrance. The ship overloaded....

Unless the passenger capacity includes around 20 encumbrance worth of space plus the encumbrance value of the passengers. Then if say the four people on board were to use those three cabins left to haul cargo does that mean they can cram another lets say 25 per room? That would make some kind of sense I suppose.

Next let us discuss what that now 195 encumbrance can be. 195 grenades? 195 blast pistols? Seems like a cargo of grenades wouldn't pay for itself in fuel, maintanance and time. So what factor does crating the stuff up do for our encumbrance? If those grenades are 25 to a case what encumbrance then? Same with blast pistols or rifles, ten pistols to a crate, six rifles or carbines to a crate. What about the big guns, like a heavy repeating blaster that would be in a crate all by itself. Crates can stack far eaiser than loose weapons. Now lets talk hauling bulk items, like food. We did a Magnificent Seven adventure where the heroes saved a farming villiage so they get great rates on provisions. How much is one encumbrance of wheat? How many does it feed and for how many days? Ration packs have no encumbrance rating, nor do the provisions that a ship carries.

What my freinds is the point of having a ship in a world where just about everything is smuggleable if you don't have these numbers?

I believe that the general rule for containers is a factor of ten.

So, ten Encumbrance 1 grenades could fit into a box that was itself Encumbrance 1.

But you couldn’t put ten of those boxes into another box of Encumbrance 1.

However, you might be able to put a hundred Encumbrance 1 boxes into a crate of Encumbrance 10.

For me, I think I’d let the players unload all the stuff they can carry into their room, and not impinge on the encumbrance capacity of the main cargo hold. But maybe a limit of ~20 Encumbrance per person for “free” in the room, and if they try to carry anything on themselves while the room is already full, then they’re knocking everything off onto the floor and creating an unholy mess for themselves.

The firefly has not FTL engine

Docking Clamps and the Retrofitted Hangar are very different. The Hangar is indeed a hangar. You can work without a EVA on the hull of the ships in the hangar, including their hulls. That does not work with clamps, which are fine to transport those ships, but are not a hangar.

And encumbrance != cargo space

Encumbrance rating represents the amount of storage for your stuff, not the amount of cargo you can transport. Anything that fits a cargo container(s) can transported, but that stuff you do not have accessible on the ship. The stuff that should be ready, like weapons, armor, etc is relying on the encumbrance rating of the ship. That is mentioned in the freighter describtions in fly casual iirc, besides it the only logical thing as well, considering that those freighters transport cargo containers which dock to the ship.

Her an example from rebels for a large scale freighter:

Smaller freighters obviously do not take so many containers at once, iirc we see the cost with two containers in one episode. And in the X-Wing games the YT-1300 can take only one container under his belly.