I had a discussion with a friend who argued that the points in a game are credited when the Houndstooth is destroyed and not when the Nashta Pup is destroyed since the pup has no point value.
I argued that the pup has to be destroyed in order to get the points for the kill.
Anyone know of any early clarification or precedents to settle this argument?
Lue.
I dunno. We could always wait for the ship and rules to be released. You know... rules and what not.
But I'm often told I'm kind of crazy.
Hence the question, "Anyone know of any early clarification or precedents to settle this argument?"
Hence the question, "Anyone know of any early clarification or precedents to settle this argument?"
People don't always get that far. Also, the previous discussion was already linked and the final answer is basically the "we really should just wait until the thing comes out and actually shows us the rules for it."
To put it another way there is no clarification or precedent to settle your argument, which you legally can't have until the pieces are finally released, which in turn will lead to this being another thread that could devolve into a discussion on how it will work.
I will also point out that some "early clarification" on things can turn out to be WRONG which then happens to leave a bad taste in some people's mouth when the actual rule is different. I'm speaking about the Scum dials with multi-faction ships where the biggest argument for requiring faction specific dials was an "early clarification" that didn't turn out to be the actual rule. Now the discussion may have been important, and could be regarding the Pup as well, but the side that backed that early clarification really felt let down by the actual rule when I believe most would have been far more accepting of how things went had that early clarification never happened.
Also the ship most likely wont have the rules in it. IMO. I think it will come out when they update the tournament rules.
If you are looking for something to base a ruling off of right now, I think that your friend is correct.
Tournament rules, page 2:
"At the end of the current round, the match time limit has been reached (if time is called mid-round, players must finish the round). Each player calculates his score by adding together the total squad point value of his opponent’s destroyed ships, including Upgrade cards equipped to those ships."
In the Hound's Tooth preview article, they state that the Pup is a zero cost ship that doesn't hit the table until the Hound's Tooth is destroyed.
"For six squad points, the Hound's Tooth provides your YV-666 pilot a means of escape in the heat of battle. When the Hound's Tooth is destroyed, your pilot can fly out of its wreckage in the Nashtah Pup , a unique Z-95 Headhunter that doesn't cost any squad points and can't deploy until the Hound's Tooth is destroyed"
Between the rules and the preview, a pretty strong case can be made for the points spent on the YV-666 being scored if it has been destroyed even if the Pup hasn't been destroyed. I'm not sure what you could point to that would make the case that nothing is scored unless the Pup is destroyed as well.
When the ship is released we'll have a real answer but if you need something now, that's about as good as I think you are going to get.
If we're going to do this I guess the most odd thing that could happen is when the side with the Hound's Tooth is wiped out EXCEPT for the Pup. If a game doesn't end until all enemy ships are destroyed, or time is called, then the Pup could stick around and potentially win the game depending on how things eventually get ruled. It may be a strange win when both sides have destroyed all the other side's points but by virtue of still being standing the Pup could earn the modified win.
If we're going to do this I guess the most odd thing that could happen is when the side with the Hound's Tooth is wiped out EXCEPT for the Pup. If a game doesn't end until all enemy ships are destroyed, or time is called, then the Pup could stick around and potentially win the game depending on how things eventually get ruled. It may be a strange win when both sides have destroyed all the other side's points but by virtue of still being standing the Pup could earn the modified win.
Applying the rules as they currently are we get the following interactions for the Pup with points and winning:
- If the YV-666 is destroyed but the Pup is not when a game is called on time, the points for the YV-666 are scored.
- If less than 100 squad points were spent, those unspent points are not scored until every ship including the Pup is destroyed
- If the Pup is the last remaining ship in play, then the player that controls the Pup wins. This may result in each player getting 100 MoV from the match.
- If the Pup is the last remaining ship in play and the squad was built using 88 squad points or less, it will result in a full win for the player that controls the Pup.
If we're going to do this I guess the most odd thing that could happen is when the side with the Hound's Tooth is wiped out EXCEPT for the Pup... It may be a strange win when both sides have destroyed all the other side's points but by virtue of still being standing the Pup could earn the modified win.
Applying the rules as they currently are we get the following interactions for the Pup with points and winning...
- If the Pup is the last remaining ship in play, then the player that controls the Pup wins. This may result in each player getting 100 MoV from the match.
- If the Pup is the last remaining ship in play and the squad was built using 88 squad points or less, it will result in a full win for the player that controls the Pup.
WWHSD's last point isn't actually required. Obviously FFG could overrule this with special rules for the Nashtah Pup--but as the rules are currently written, if the Pup is the last remaining ship in play, the Pup's owner gets a full match win regardless of what the list totals were.
Quoting from the tournament rules, on page 2 under the heading "End of Match":
Each tournament match ends in one of the following three ways:
- All of one player’s ships are destroyed (respecting the Simultaneous Attack Rule, Rules of Play, Page 16). The player with at least one ship remaining immediately earns a Match Win, and the opposing player receives a Match Loss.
If the Pup is the last remaining ship, the conditions here are fulfilled.
Edited by Vorpal SwordIf you are looking for something to base a ruling off of right now, I think that your friend is correct.
Tournament rules, page 2:
"At the end of the current round, the match time limit has been reached (if time is called mid-round, players must finish the round). Each player calculates his score by adding together the total squad point value of his opponent’s destroyed ships, including Upgrade cards equipped to those ships."
In the Hound's Tooth preview article, they state that the Pup is a zero cost ship that doesn't hit the table until the Hound's Tooth is destroyed.
"For six squad points, the Hound's Tooth provides your YV-666 pilot a means of escape in the heat of battle. When the Hound's Tooth is destroyed, your pilot can fly out of its wreckage in the Nashtah Pup , a unique Z-95 Headhunter that doesn't cost any squad points and can't deploy until the Hound's Tooth is destroyed"
Between the rules and the preview, a pretty strong case can be made for the points spent on the YV-666 being scored if it has been destroyed even if the Pup hasn't been destroyed. I'm not sure what you could point to that would make the case that nothing is scored unless the Pup is destroyed as well.
When the ship is released we'll have a real answer but if you need something now, that's about as good as I think you are going to get.
I can't wait to see someone kill the hounds tooth, being the last ship on that side, and then the pup killing what ever was left, you win, with MOV 100:100. Lol
Killing the Hounds Tooth as the last ship also has issues. The ship needs to be destroyed before the Pup is deployed. This means that there would be no ships on the board so the game should be over. But then the Pup shows up and you've got questions again. My original thoughts were seeing the Tooth destroyed while there were still ships beside it so the Pup wouldn't be alone when it shows up; if the Pup is going to show up alone I believe the game would be over before then.
We might get in the rules in the box that you put a 1 or 2 straight between the front or back guides on the Hound's Tooth, place the Pup (like a bomb) and THEN remove the Hound's Tooth from play.
The card clearly states the Pup is deployed before the Hound's Tooth is removed. So there is always a ship on the board.
And btw you win if there are no enemy ships on the board in the End phase, not in the combat phase.
Edited by StephenEsven