I love the look of the new edition. But I'm starting to wonder - can I be bothered?

I'm really impressed with the dice pools and the bell curve, the party tension and the stances.

But on reflection, as a play-by-forum Game Master, I reckon I'll stick with 2nd edition because it's less hassle. The new mechanics are excellent, but very difficult to implement in forum based game.

I will probably buy the game anyway, but I have this creeping suspicion that I might end up sticking with 2nd edition to reduce the complication.

Again I stress that I am very impressed with Jay's vision and if I had the luxury of a 'live' local group I would abide.

I am also a relentling optimist.

I just can't explain the 100$ price tag to my wife.

Not this time (**** why did I buy the new Space Hulk?)

I run primarily on maptool..tell me about it. Hopefully some other sod goes ahead and does up the dice macros there...

jh

Necrozius said:

You may bribe her with something she wants - a genuine Runefang for her character probably , or if she isn't playing, you have to go for the jewellery-stuff . In the letter case, you also need to talk to your boss for a raise ... however, buying the new Warhammer makes you happy, and marriage is all about happiness, isn't it?

Today I almost posted something very similar to Ye Ancient One's sentiment.

I love the ideas that have gone into the game. The party mechanics seem really great. I like the DreamBlade-ish dice mechanics. I like the idea of using cards as game aids. I like the idea of stances. It's just not hanging together for me, and the specifics are letting me down. Maybe it's just that the last couple of designer diaries are focused on game elements that I'm less interested in.

As ever, I'm going to rely on customer reviews and actual play reports to help me decide if this is a game I want to try.

In all seriousness, I like the rules so much that I'm going to import some of them into my WFRP 2nd ed. campaign.

All my players love the idea of the Party Sheet and shared Fortune Points. I'm also going to try to make reference cards for people's Talents and special abilities. Great stuff.

I just can't afford it, so I'll do the next best thing.

I may even make up rules for home made Fortune or Misfortune dice to roll along with percentiles. Whatever. My buddies are creative.

Everything I have seen so far has impressed me. I am an old school gamer going back a good few years, and to me 3e seems to be addressing very well issues I am having with 2e games currently with my play group - I believe that 3e would encourage better role playing within this group.

I have some concerns, which I am looking forward to seeing how they will be resolved. Maybe I'll like the resolution, maybe I won't. But as I said initially - everything I have seen so far has impressed me.

I think this current 'deflation' people may be feeling is that the news isn't new anymore, the excitment is wearing off a little, and we're just waiting to see the finished product and make our individual minds up.

Ye Ancient One said:

Ultimately do FFG (not the designers, the company as a whole), care if you play he game, as long as you buy it ? I'm sure I'll get to try the game at a con and I'll make my decisions from there.

Well, FFG - the company wants the game to fun enough that you buy the expansions for it.

NewTroski said:

Hell, if they publish good background material that doesn't have too much v3-rules specific content, I'll be interested even if I don't make the switch to v3.

Incidentally, I'm also in the how-to-explain-this-to-my-wife-who-doesn't-game boat.

Mikael Hasselstein said:

that boat is a great one!!! im not married yet but the woman in my life is kind like....this is gana take time away from us being together....all i can say for you is......you love her and she is your wife, and if money is an issue.....have your gaming group pitch in...thats what im doing with mine...we are all college dude so money is TIGHT!! but with 6 of us...thats 23 buck US for the core set and the adventurers vault...well worth it means how a players guide for DnD is 34.99

Necrozius said:

Necrozius said:

If you are anything like me, you bought the new Space Hulk because you went in to a Games Workshop store for the first time in many a year and found out that an old friend who you hadn't seen in almost as long worked there. Then said old friend showed you the amazing minatures and pursuaded you to buy said game even though you had at one point vowed that Games Workshop would not see another penny of your cash.

Actually, the wife bought it for me (bless her).

Then, when your copy arrived in the post and you finally got round to playing it with some friends (none of whom had played any of the previous editions), you realised that it's actually awesome. And a totally 100% justifiable purchase. Er... that I didn't pay for.

I think another issue (or perceived issue) that occupies my thoughts is complexity. With each designer diary, it's dawning on me that this is a more complex game than 2nd Edition and it will require a good deal more commitment from myself and my players to become versed in the mechanics. Variable powers and effects seem to form the largest burden of complexity, building on a relatively simple core mechanic.

Yet I suppose that 2nd edition was not without it's complexities - it all seems so simple now that I've been playing it for a while and the change from 1st to 2nd was minor.

There are two other factors at play here, in addition to the issue of complexity:

1. I can't see this translating to my own mode of play - which is play-by-forum - without a great deal of headaches and a lot more effort.

2. I constantly drift between areas of Geekery, such as WFRP, Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Dungeons & Dragons and board games - it's cyclicle, but right now I'm doing a lot of army painting and my roleplaying is on the wane. I'll most likely drift back to WFRP in a few months, but at the moment my Geek magnet is aligned firmly to toy soldiers and not RPGs.

I suspect though that some day the mood will take me and I'll dive into the new edition, for good or ill. What would motivate me most strongly would be the publication of an official, well thought-out campaign that sparks my imagination.

A good point was made -

At least with v3, they are going to concentrate on giving us more in-depth details about the Warhammer universe. Right now, v1 and v2 didn't do a good job of that and I feel that BI has intentionally tried to avoid it because their (and GW's) business model was to nickle and dime me for each simple scrap of the setting.

I'm actually glad that BI went under and that FFG is taking the reigns. There were so many problems and disappointments from the BI that I was swearing off every playing WHFR again.

McClaud said:

What on earth about the new system makes you think that they're focussed on more background details? They're focussed on adding a lot of tokens, dice and new game mechanics. I reserve judgement on whether this was a good move until I can actually see how it plays, but I'm pretty sure that when you have to pack extra bits of card, tokens and dice into a box whilst keeping it affordable - you need to jettison some fluff.

As for Black Industries, I know they gave us a lot of good books and some mediocre ones. All I know about Fantasy Flight is that they make pretty good board games. So they have less of my trust - I honestly hope they earn it.

McClaud said:

McClaud said:

Actually everything I've seen would indicate that you're going to spend money not just on setting material but enough gear to run a group of 4+ players. For starters it looks like we'll get at least two expansions before the Empire is filled back out. Who knows when they'll get to the phantom setting books for the other uncovered areas of the world. Each one will probably rack up at 35-40bucks a shot. They'll all be quality I'm sure but still. If you are looking to avoid the nickel and dime crawl for every letter of setting fluff...prepare to be disapointed.

Games cost money. It's a fact. There is no panacea there. Some are cheaper than others, and while WFRP v3 is up there in price to start out it is doing some pretty bold things. Still thinking I will stick with v2, but only because I tend to be more old fashioned in my game mentality. For all the mechanics changes v3 still looks like WFRP to me and it wouldn't take two years in the emperor of Gurkhul's dungeons to get me to try it.

I guess in the end I'm sort of agreeing with you man in so far as the new edition in FFG's hands is a good thing. I just don't think we can all honestly say that v3 is going to be the solution to the money or content woes of previous systems.

Callidon said:

I have to agree. FFG are known for high quality (although the lack of hardback books in WFRPv3 is a serious mark against claims of high quality). Unfortunately FFG are also known for high prices over and above the level other companies charge for products of similar size and quality. Sadly a number of potential customers have already sated that yes they want this game but they simply cannot justifiy $100 for it. The price of the first few products has been mentioned by too many people to dismiss as a irrelevent concern. Even if your sitting there thinking well I can afford the game so who cares if others can't. The reason you should care is that if FFG price WFRPv3 out of the reach of most gamers there will be no fanbase to buy supplements without which the game will fail and die. So in that regard the price issue does affect everyone. This game will be more expensive than most rpg's on the market.

While I have no concrete proof of this ... I would not doubt that sometime after launch all the individual components will be available for purchase from FFG. It is possible they might even create a streamlined 'players kit' that contains just a sampling of pieces for the player (Keeper, sheets, stance meter, etc) You'll still be required to know someone with all the cards, for example, to finish your character (or buy them separately). Who knows. Just keep in mind that this Core Set is an all-in-one "complete game". Think if WoTC bundled the D&D PHB, DMG, and MM plus cards and tokens (etc) together in a single box set and sold that. Same thing, and near the same price. I agree that $100 to shell out at one time is quite a bit (although I know a lot of people who bought the PHB, DMG, and MM at the same time for a tidy sum too). This is especially true for people who will only be players (although there is less delineation between player materials and GM materials in 3e), who typically only need to shell out money for a single player's book and maybe an expansion book for their character class in order to play.

Since a gaming group will need most, if not all, the materials included in the Core Set to play the game, it makes sense that FFG packaged it all up together and that the Core Set is what they are initially selling. This avoids confusion with people not knowing what pieces they would need to buy to play, and such. As long as one Core Set's worth of materials (or thereabouts) is present, a group can play. I think the 3-players + GM is only limited in the sense that there are only 3 keeper boxes, and probably only 3 copies of basic action cards. If people are willing to share and find creative ways to store PCs and handle stance meters, etc, then I expect you can run just about as many players as you want with just the Core Set.

So, I suggest keeping that in mind as a likely possibility when discussing the cost of the game. If you want to play at launch, each group will need to fork over $100 to play (share the cost, perhaps?). Otherwise, you probably just need to wait a few months until individual pieces (and perhaps bundles, like a rules bundle or a Core card bundle) become available, and then you'll probably be able to pick and choose what to buy and how many for your needs. Which, of course, will bring the amount of money an individual player will need to pay at one time to a more appealing number.

Now, having said all this, I do think it will be a big mistake on FFG's part if they don't provide the ability to purchase separate pieces at some point. Because you're right, $100 is a big investment, and a group doesn't need every player to own the Core Set (as much as it would please FFG to sell all those, I'm sure). Purely due to the fact that cards/books/tokens will get damaged/lost,and will need replacing, I do think that sometime after launch everything will become available for general purchase. Perhaps I'm just too much an optimist, who knows? But it makes sense to me and I'm hopeful.

I dont know of FFG actually doing this for any other games they have released. Sure they have never released something quite like this before either. So I wont hold my breath that it will be an option, while i'm not completely convinced it wont be an option either.

As I said, they will have some sort of option for those who have lost or damaged various components of the Core Set. So, somehow those pieces will be available. Whether it is widely publicized or not might be a different thing. Of course, there will always be Ebay, because you know there will be people selling the pieces separately there at some point.

I would guess that, if nothing else, there will be resellers on E-Bay parting out the individual books, and components. Look at all the Space Hulk stuff on there right now. People can make extra money on the core book, dice, and cards, since these are pieces that people will want extra of. Then they can sell the spell books for a little under even, and the GM book (which will have the least demand) for cheap, and still come out ahead.

Yep, I expect there will be people who will buy the Core Set and break it up and sell it in pieces, for an overall value greater than what they paid for the Core Set.

dvang said:

Which is the only way would buy any of the game. As it allows me to view the game cheaper (just buy the rule book to see how it works) and it is also already accounted for in the FFG profit so I wouldnt be "supporting" the game directly. Allowing me to be smug in my stubborness to a satisfactory degree LOL.

... Or just secretly con someone you know into buying a Core Set and then let them let you play a game or two.