I want to try Deathrain as soon at I have the ship in my hands. I don't know if this guy is competitive, but is amazing! Bomb + Mines + Advanced Sensors, generates a HUGE threat zone of automatic damage. Rebel scums... dodge this!

The problem with Deathrain is that he only has 2 bomb slots.

The problem with Deathrain is that he only has 2 bomb slots.

That's 4 bombs. I'm not sure he's going to live to drop them in most games.

Since it does way different stuff than those ships, I really don't think so.

Punisher will make a great heavy bomber but it's not fighter and will go down fairly fast.

If it had been three attack base maybe but it's clearly meant to use torps and missiles so it's cheap price disappears quickly.

Boost alone does not an arc dodger make.

Punisher Swarm is right down there with naked Y-wing swarm. Worse, even, as you can fit another Y-wing in. TIE advanced beats it hands down for swarmability.

The TIE defender is pretty much unrelated to the TIE punisher. Very different ship.

TIE punisher versus TIE advanced, the TIE advanced doesn't pay for its sensor slot's contents, the TIE punisher does. If you want to do the Accuracy Corrector Cluster Missile Alpha Strike with the Punisher you've got to drop to three Punishers, and then you're not really a swarm any more. If you start loading them up then you're moving out of a swarm and into a Elites list, and the comparability drops further.

The TIE punisher's an ordnance platform, not a dogfighter. Even if it had the free sensor slot like the TIE advanced it'd be severely outmatched. It has 9 HP to the x1's 5, but those 5 are behind 3 agility. The Punisher's got 1. Unupgraded it's like a Y-wing with Hull Upgrade and a similarly inhibited dial, and its native boost isn't going to be doing much for you at PS2.

TIE punisher versus TIE bomber, five points to upgrade to the Punisher hull, which trades an agility die for three shields, changes the dial, gets you another bomb slot, another sensor slot and swaps barrel roll for boost.

In this, the TIE punisher tends towards loading it up and the TIE bomber lends itself to a certain frugality with ordnance. As the original TIE bomber article said, you take the TIE bomber when what you want is the ordnance (including bombs). With the generic TIE bomber you don't really want to push beyond 25pt and certainly not beyond 30. When you start getting really high, you might as well upgrade to a named. Thing is, the TIE bomber doesn't have that option: Jonus is a swarm leader for supporting generics and Rhymer is cripplingly overpriced at this time.

Redline and Deathrain however, are incredible named pilots. Redline is the master of torpedo and missile ordnance and Deathrain the master of bomb and mine ordnance. The generics however are a case much like the large ships: you're spending so many points you might as well make good on your investment with a named pilot. If you're not putting enough ordnance on to warrant going for the named, you might as well go for the TIE bomber.

In brief, the Punisher I think will shine on its named pilots and the Bomber will continue to (post Extra Munitons) have excellent value generics, with Jonus coming into play when you have a lot of them (or supporting HLC TIE defenders). The decision between them I think all too often will be either to take one named Punisher or to take two generic Bombers.

The Punisher will either fill the bombers current backfield role (carries the bombs stays at the back) which ok is where the Defender is right now with the HLC, but the Defender will evolve to be more up close and personal with the MK2. Advanced is your middle tier strike fighter - like the XBwing, it can't replace that.

To me, a loaded punisher is a component, not a replacement.

Will it be the list foci, flanked by escorts. Will it be the list's backup.

Not sure yet.

Thanks Blue Five! You saved me from typing up a lot of that.

A Tempest Squadron Tie Advanced with Accuracy Corrector will be able to defeat a naked Tie Punisher any day, as well as survive a lot of shots from anyone.

When did Tie Bombers suck? I've done very well with a 4 Tie Bomber list, especialy vs. fat turrets. I almost won a Store Championship with that list.

Tie Bombers really are about the missiles and torpedoes. They are cheap enough that you can go load them out decently and stay at 25 pts or below. In fact, forget Jonus. Go with Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM for 25 pts. Homing Missile with EM will be a thing as it makes each one cost 3.5 pts and let you keep the TL for re-roll.

Major Rhymer will most likely be a good thing with Adv. Homing Missiles (which I think were custom made for him). I'm thinking 3 red dice that you can't roll green dice against. Him with 4 of them (after EM) will hurt Stealth Soontir and/or a Phantom. Give him PTL and he will hurt things.

Bombers are way cheaper than punishers, more agile and have only 3 less hit points (though those hitpoints ARE shields, so we'll say factoring criticals 4-5 less).

They do lack system which is big.

In larger games I think bombers still have a place, and indeed if ordnance is improved just slightly then their role could be huge. a tricked out bomber is 10-15 points cheaper than the tricked out punisher. makes the difference between a naked advanced and HellVader. NOT a clear cut superiority. I'm not saying the pun is a bad ship from a gameplay standpoint. But it's not going to replace anything, even the ship it really competes with.

In larger games I think bombers still have a place, and indeed if ordnance is improved just slightly then their role could be huge.

Extra Munitions and Homing Missile is the fix for the Tie Bomber. It turns the Homing Missile from a 5 pt one shot into two shots for 3.5 pts. It allows you to use your TL again. All that for a 23 pt Tie Bomber. I'd rather have that than a Tie Punisher.

Depends on the build.

In fact.. in regard to which ship/pilot is best right now: IT DEPENDS!

isn't it fantastic, balance?

Amusingly, if TIE Punishers and K-Wings are super popular at the launch of Wave 7, a strong counter to both will probably be TIE Bombers decked out in Cluster Missiles.

Dear OP,

Game design does not appear to be your strong suit - that is OK.

Using words like "pwn", is not OK.

PS. I kid, i kid.

Am I the only one that think that the Tie Punisher is outpowered by the K-Wing?

I mean ... its a 21 point baseline non-turret attack 2 ship. You have to take Ordnance and System Upgrades and you still will have troubles using this 40+-pointish monster in an effective way you still need to invent first.

The K-Wing will just move around and blast stuff with the TLT. A no-brainer almost.

Since when does the Defender and the Bomber (and, by association, Punisher) have the same role? If you are flying your Defender like a Bomber, and vice versa, you are doing something wrong.

Now the Defender and Advanced do compete for the same role.

Since when does the Defender and the Bomber (and, by association, Punisher) have the same role? If you are flying your Defender like a Bomber, and vice versa, you are doing something wrong.

Now the Defender and Advanced do compete for the same role.

They do, but I think that you use a (named) defender as a midrange workhorse fighter and you use generic advanced for a bulldog tanky filler, which makes them lovely together. The named advanced competes with interceptors more imo.

As for punisher vs. Bomber I think you take named punishers and generic bombers and that's almost without exception. I think using generic punishers will usually not be worth it, just like named bombers are not usually worth it.

I don't understand the complaint vs. the generic Tie Punishers. Why are they not worth taking? The low PS for TL shouldn't be that much of an issue.

..in fact, I see the low PS Punisher as a better bomber. Or....miner.

Am I the only one that think that the Tie Punisher is outpowered by the K-Wing?

I mean ... its a 21 point baseline non-turret attack 2 ship. You have to take Ordnance and System Upgrades and you still will have troubles using this 40+-pointish monster in an effective way you still need to invent first.

The K-Wing will just move around and blast stuff with the TLT. A no-brainer almost.

The Punisher can't go forward faster than 3 speed and has the 1 forward. It can unload from a distance.

With it's beefy slam engines, what if the K-Wing has no 1 speed maneuvers at all?

I see generic punishers as only really being capable as missile launching platforms, specifically for concussion and cluster. It gives you solid attacks at all range bands, and FCS takes care of the TL issue. I think they will be great when paired with some nasty aces, like Vader, Soontir, or Whisper. Do you target the punisher and let the ace get into the end game unharmed, or kill the ace and take a beating in the process?

Consider a build like this:

Cutlass (21)

FCS (2)

Cluster (4)

Concussion (4)

EM (2)

(33)

Add in 34 point Soontir, and 33 point vader (ATC, Pred)

The punisher does this job way better than the defender or the advanced, IMO.

I don't understand the complaint vs. the generic Tie Punishers. Why are they not worth taking? The low PS for TL shouldn't be that much of an issue.

..in fact, I see the low PS Punisher as a better bomber. Or....miner.

I think it's due to the amount of points you have wrapped up in Punishers by the time you upgrade them. A few more points spent get you a great pilot ability depending on whether you are mostly planning on using bombs or missiles and torpedoes. I also think that you aren't going to be seeing many lists running multiple Punishers, so cutting a few points here and there becomes a little less important. Bomber's on the other hand have to pay a huge tax for their named pilots and it is going to be easier fit a couple of them with ordnance into half of your list. A pair of Punishers is going to account for over 2/3rds of your list making it hard to fit anything substantial in the points that are left over.

I see generic punishers as only really being capable as missile launching platforms, specifically for concussion and cluster. It gives you solid attacks at all range bands, and FCS takes care of the TL issue. I think they will be great when paired with some nasty aces, like Vader, Soontir, or Whisper. Do you target the punisher and let the ace get into the end game unharmed, or kill the ace and take a beating in the process?

Consider a build like this:

Cutlass (21)

FCS (2)

Cluster (4)

Concussion (4)

EM (2)

(33)

Add in 34 point Soontir, and 33 point vader (ATC, Pred)

The punisher does this job way better than the defender or the advanced, IMO.

It doesn't have the FCS but you get about the same thing for 8 points less with a Bomber:

Use a Homing Missile for 1 pt more instead of FCS.

Am I the only one that think that the Tie Punisher is outpowered by the K-Wing?

I mean ... its a 21 point baseline non-turret attack 2 ship. You have to take Ordnance and System Upgrades and you still will have troubles using this 40+-pointish monster in an effective way you still need to invent first.

The K-Wing will just move around and blast stuff with the TLT. A no-brainer almost.

If all you want to do is TLT you might be better off with the Y-wing. Maybe even the HWK. Both significantly cheaper.

I don't understand the complaint vs. the generic Tie Punishers. Why are they not worth taking? The low PS for TL shouldn't be that much of an issue.

..in fact, I see the low PS Punisher as a better bomber. Or....miner.

The low PS TIE punishers aren't bad in of themselves. They're good pilots with lots of options. Thing is, if you load it up with all the sensor, bomb and rocket tricks you might as well pay a little more for a named that'll be much more effective with them. If you're frugal with your ordnance then the TIE bomber presents a much cheaper platform for the same weapons. There are probably cases where you'd want the Cutlass over the Scimitar but in most cases the TIE bomber'll do the same job for less.

21pts

still have to pay for system upgrades

less tough than a B-wing

what do you mean, less tough than a b-wing?

it has the same shields and 1 more hull. with the same agility.

the b-wing has twice as many red maneuvers and no inherent boost ability for arc dodging

I think you are mistaken

21pts

still have to pay for system upgrades

less tough than a B-wing

what do you mean, less tough than a b-wing?

it has the same shields and 1 more hull. with the same agility.

the b-wing has twice as many red maneuvers and no inherent boost ability for arc dodging

I think you are mistaken

You must be thinking of the Y-Wing. The B-Wing has 5 Shields to the Punisher's 3. The 6 Hull of the Punisher is going to be a magnet for crits.