Does anyone use Squats in their games?

Not sure if it counts, but in a game of Dark Heresy I've played in, the quartermaster from our Inquisitor's base was a squat. Pretty much your archetypical Shadowrun-style dwarven tinkerer, it seemed, but also a stickler for red tape.

Plenty. Beastmen, too. The only thing I rigorously retcon out are newcrons, tbh.

Not me- the elimination of Squats was one of my favorite fluff changes implemented in 3rd Ed 40K. The only thing more disruptive to immersion in the (otherwise fascinating) setting than 'Squats as Space Dwarves' was 'Squats as aging 1970s bikers'...

If GW (or anyone else) could come up with an interesting reinterpretation of Squats, I might change my tune (Dan Abnett came close with a 'Squat-in-all-but-name' supporting character in the Ravenor series). Until then, good riddance!

If GW (or anyone else) could come up with an interesting reinterpretation of Squats, I might change my tune (Dan Abnett came close with a 'Squat-in-all-but-name' supporting character in the Ravenor series). Until then, good riddance!

Have you taken a look at the so-called Demiurg mentioned in Battlefleet Gothic? (scroll down here )

There's very little detail about them so far, but it could be a good first step for some. In short, they are a seclusive race of space-faring dwarves focused on mining and fabrication, organised into "brotherhoods" that sometimes control an entire ship, other times (in case of the larger mobile Stronghold vessels) share it with one or two others. They sometimes can be hired as mercenaries, a lot of their weaponry is repurposed mining equipment, and true to the cliché, they have an extreme dislike of Orks.

If GW (or anyone else) could come up with an interesting reinterpretation of Squats, I might change my tune (Dan Abnett came close with a 'Squat-in-all-but-name' supporting character in the Ravenor series). Until then, good riddance!

Have you taken a look at the so-called Demiurg mentioned in Battlefleet Gothic? (scroll down here )

There's very little detail about them so far, but it could be a good first step for some. In short, they are a seclusive race of space-faring dwarves focused on mining and fabrication, organised into "brotherhoods" that sometimes control an entire ship, other times (in case of the larger mobile Stronghold vessels) share it with one or two others. They sometimes can be hired as mercenaries, a lot of their weaponry is repurposed mining equipment, and true to the cliché, they have an extreme dislike of Orks.

Just what we need, more Tolkein clichés smashed wholeheartedly into our sci-fi settings. /s

I don't hate Squats or anything but I've thus far had no inclination to bring them up in my campaign.

I mostly mention abhumans on the side. They exist integrated into imperial society, so ratling manservants are a fairly common thing, for example, while the stocky squats are usually found in high gravity environments, like gas giant mining projects, ogryn tend to be bodyguards or soldiers, beastmen suicide cults used as cannon fodder or for hard manual labour, etc.. Same as minor human aberrancies can be a thing depending on which world you're from, wether it be due to genetweaking in the past (common among Death Worlders) or a gradual aberrency due to something in the local diet that may not even be visible to the naked eye. Sometimes, when the players are doing something that would bring them into frequent contact with abhumans, such as, say, investigating said mining station, they'll bump into a lot of squat NPCs, but otherwise, it's just interactive scenery.

Though there was one time I had an eldar saboteur systematically eliminate all the squats on the starship, because the know-how to repair and maintain speciifc systems is often passed along among family clans and his primary target was crewed by squats. But that's really because I wanted to underline that eldars are assholes to a party full of elf lovers. Predictably, they got the message after that session. The emotional reaction to Vietcong style genocide put them firmly into the "I hate Eldar" camp.

Just what we need, more Tolkein clichés smashed wholeheartedly into our sci-fi settings. /s

To be fair, it is 40k .

In my opinion, as soon as you throw something with an "established" name or obvious reference into a setting, like .. umm, Orks or Eldar, the writer ought to feel obliged to pay homage to this existing image, because it evokes certain expectations in the reader. If you really want to craft something different, fine, but friggin' call it something else instead of raising false expectancy.

That being said, that's just a general remark; I too could have done without the Ork hate as here it actually gets a bit too obvious for my taste. The preference for mining and engineering would have been perfectly sufficient, imho.

They exist integrated into imperial society, so ratling manservants are a fairly common thing, for example, while the stocky squats are usually found in high gravity environments, like gas giant mining projects, ogryn tend to be bodyguards or soldiers, beastmen suicide cults used as cannon fodder or for hard manual labour, etc.. [...]

This is probably just a matter of interpretation, but personally I'd also caution against having abhumans appear "too integrated" as if 40k was like Shadowrun with different metaraces living side by side. Human society in this setting feels rather extremist and racist, so myself, I'd expect ghettos, prejudice, race laws, the whole works. Details would obviously differ between planets, though I think that on many worlds abhumans may not exist at all, either because they've been purged or because they were never introduced (given how they are rather specific mutations that would have required specific environmental conditions to develop, and then get "exported").

Just what we need, more Tolkein clichés smashed wholeheartedly into our sci-fi settings. /s

To be fair, it is 40k .

In my opinion, as soon as you throw something with an "established" name or obvious reference into a setting, like .. umm, Orks or Eldar, the writer ought to feel obliged to pay homage to this existing image, because it evokes certain expectations in the reader. If you really want to craft something different, fine, but friggin' call it something else instead of raising false expectancy.

That being said, that's just a general remark; I too could have done without the Ork hate as here it actually gets a bit too obvious for my taste. The preference for mining and engineering would have been perfectly sufficient, imho.

They exist integrated into imperial society, so ratling manservants are a fairly common thing, for example, while the stocky squats are usually found in high gravity environments, like gas giant mining projects, ogryn tend to be bodyguards or soldiers, beastmen suicide cults used as cannon fodder or for hard manual labour, etc.. [...]

This is probably just a matter of interpretation, but personally I'd also caution against having abhumans appear "too integrated" as if 40k was like Shadowrun with different metaraces living side by side. Human society in this setting feels rather extremist and racist, so myself, I'd expect ghettos, prejudice, race laws, the whole works. Details would obviously differ between planets, though I think that on many worlds abhumans may not exist at all, either because they've been purged or because they were never introduced (given how they are rather specific mutations that would have required specific environmental conditions to develop, and then get "exported").

I feel like this one of the big failings of the presentation of the Imperium in the 40k setting.

There are REALLY obvious abhumans (Navigators, ogryn, ratlings) and there's a LOT of material talking about how weird and different all the people are on various planets/ships and yet every time you see content it's a bunch of white (usually! the Van Saar of Necromunda had a vaguely asian feel) guys who all look extremely normal.

There's not a lot of portrayal of spindly-armed voidborn or greenblue-skinned humans desperate to absorb warmth on their frigid world or whatever.

It's given lip-service in the DH books, but I really feel like this part of the Imperium could be better addressed. Or at least represented.

Edit: I am pleased that there are various cultures and races represented in the various IG regiments, but they all still look very human. I want to see some weirdos that are pushing the envelope a LITTLE, but aren't ogryn-level different.

I'd like to point out something being integrated isn't the same as 'being treated well', and that perceptions of what is a 'mutant' will vary from planet to planet. Realising this, and consequently implementing it, has allowed me to actually pit my players in situations where they are seen as the abhuman due to exactly how the imperial creed operates on a local basis.

I mostly mention abhumans on the side. They exist integrated into imperial society, so ratling manservants are a fairly common thing, for example, while the stocky squats are usually found in high gravity environments, like gas giant mining projects, ogryn tend to be bodyguards or soldiers, beastmen suicide cults used as cannon fodder or for hard manual labour, etc...

The thing is, in 40K lore, Squats weren't 'integrated members of the Imperium'- they were their own independent empire ('the Homeworlds'), which existed separate from the Imperium. That would be tricky to explain within today's version of the setting...

Just what we need, more Tolkein clichés smashed wholeheartedly into our sci-fi settings. /s

In my opinion, as soon as you throw something with an "established" name or obvious reference into a setting, like .. umm, Orks or Eldar, the writer ought to feel obliged to pay homage to this existing image, because it evokes certain expectations in the reader. If you really want to craft something different, fine, but friggin' call it something else instead of raising false expectancy.

Sure, 40K began as 'Warhammer Fantasy Battles- in space !', but most of the races were given enough of a make-over to facilitate acceptance of them as unrelated beings in a completely different setting (Eldar are nomadic corsairs, Orks reproduce via fungal spores and are 'born' programmed with all of the knowledge they need to function [this latter was subsequently copied into the fantasy setting, where there were originally female Orcs], etc). But not Squats- they are WFB Dwarfs with boltguns instead of axes, full stop . Blech...

But not Squats- they are WFB Dwarfs with boltguns instead of axes, full stop . Blech...

and the whole 70's biker thing, of course... ;D

Is it just me or did the squat only look like dwarfs in the Epic games?.

Rogue trader

Space marine/ epic

Is it just me or did the squat only look like dwarfs in the Epic games?.

I remember them as always looking like dwarfs, complete with horned helmets right out of WFB (or '70s bikers).

I mostly mention abhumans on the side. They exist integrated into imperial society, so ratling manservants are a fairly common thing, for example, while the stocky squats are usually found in high gravity environments, like gas giant mining projects, ogryn tend to be bodyguards or soldiers, beastmen suicide cults used as cannon fodder or for hard manual labour, etc...

The thing is, in 40K lore, Squats weren't 'integrated members of the Imperium'- they were their own independent empire ('the Homeworlds'), which existed separate from the Imperium. That would be tricky to explain within today's version of the setting..

Heh, you said it yourself. It'd be tricky to explain to folks who didn't play back then. So, I leave their origins deliberately vague, but tend to play them as melancholy or uprooted and with a bitter hatred of the tyranids.

Nope. Squats like imperial knights don't fit my vision of 40k. It's even worse with knights since it's like they always been there. At least squats got retcon rather early.

Nope. Squats like imperial knights don't fit my vision of 40k. It's even worse with knights since it's like they always been there. At least squats got retcon rather early.

To be fair, Imperial Knights already appeared around the time of 2nd Edition, they just fell to the sideline and somehow were never mentioned again. Until now.

I understand your position, though. I think with 40k, it depends a lot on just when you got to know the franchise, and what was shown to you as you investigated it more deeply. However, the IP as a whole does not feature a very consistent image of the setting, and its portrayal can change drastically from one book to another, all depending on when it was written by whom. A lot of the new stuff doesn't sit right with me either; I will always call it "Imperial Guard", for example, and much prefer the old Storm Troopers before the overgreebled remake in their tracked clown cars.

tl;dr: We got to know and enjoy the setting in a specific way, and things we like being changed threatens our affection.

Nope. Squats like imperial knights don't fit my vision of 40k.

That's how I feel about Jokaero. If there's ever any tech monkeys in my campaign at all, they'll be some sort of Dark Mechanicus abomination.

tracked clown cars.

OMG. The first time I saw an image of one of those things was on /tg/, and I literally thought for weeks that it was a gag!

OMG. The first time I saw an image of one of those things was on /tg/, and I literally thought for weeks that it was a gag!

That's what I thought when I saw the first pictures of certain new Space Wolf minis.

To be fair, the basic idea of the Taurox isn't that bad, it's just ... the execution. It looks way too stunted. If the tracks had only been 2x longer, and/or a different shape (triangles), it might have actually ended up looking somewhat cool.

The biggest thing that bothers me about the Taurox is those silly guns on the sides. They aren't on sponsons or anything, they are literally glued there. How the hell do you aim with those? Swerve the vehicle trying to line up the gun?

Second problem I have is that the turret mounted battle canon is way to small. (Yeah yeah, different calibre of battle canon shells etc. But it still feels to small.)

Taurox conversion: these things look hella good with wheels instead of track units.

Taurox Lyn474 variant.

Taurox Eternia scout pattern